Clearing girdle cut trees?

[bjseiler]

About two years ago, I had some timber stand improvement done. They went through and girdle cut the undesirable trees. Some of those trees have fallen already but a lot are still standing. Dead, but standing. In two areas I would like to create small forest openings and there are a bunch of these girdle cut trees there.

Is there a safe way to try and push/pull these trees over? I stay clear of chainsawing dead trees as that scares me. Most are 4-8” in diameter.

Curious if anyone has dealt with this before.

 

[35-acre]

Don't use a tractor:



Aside form that - I don't have any advice.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I know its not ideal but... If the trees are dead why not just leave them stand and plot around them? Without leaves they are going to let plenty of sunlight in.

 

[bjseiler]

I was hoping to be able to dig out some of the stumps so I could use my tractor in there. If not, I’m not sure I’m up to that much raking.

 

[Bill]

Notch and cut like any tree. Just keep an eye out above for dead limbs. The dead limbs are what can hurt you. If they break off and fall straight down. I’d leave any suspect trees/limbs alone.

 

[yoderjac]

About two years ago, I had some timber stand improvement done. They went through and girdle cut the undesirable trees. Some of those trees have fallen already but a lot are still standing. Dead, but standing. In two areas I would like to create small forest openings and there are a bunch of these girdle cut trees there.

Is there a safe way to try and push/pull these trees over? I stay clear of chainsawing dead trees as that scares me. Most are 4-8” in diameter.

Curious if anyone has dealt with this before.

You can certainly push them over with large equipment, but if you had large equipment, you would not have killed them and let them stand. If they are hardwoods and you don't have large equipment (backhoe, excavator, dozer), you are going to have to live the the stumps for many years. Pines will disintegrate in a few years and the tops can be removed enough to do no-till/min-till type planting. Not so much with hardwoods. I'd leave the stumps stand tall enough that you can see them when working in the field. You can just work around them with the tractor using throw and mow techniques.

My preferred method, when working with small equipment, is to either cut them down with a chain saw when they are alive but dormant or to girdle them but as soon as they are dead, fell them withe the chain saw. Probably the biggest risk of waiting a couple years after killing them to fell them is dead branches falling down on you while you are working on them.

The key to taking them down with a chain saw is analyzing the situation so that you can get them to fall without hanging on other trees. If you can do that, you will be much safer. The most dangerous situation I find is felling a hardwood and having it start to fall and hang in another tree. We call these "widow makers". You have to really know what you are dong to deal with a widow maker.

Try to find a tree that you can fell without hanging. If it is dead, look for possible branches that can fall while you are working on it. Wear safety equipment. Nest, look for any lean or uneven weight distribution up top. Get a feel for the way the tree wants to fall. Then notch the tree to influence that fall a little left or right so it does not hang. Once it is down, cut it up and remove the debris. This will make dealing with the next tree easier. Once one is down, you have created a new hole in the canopy. Re-evaluate the situation with the new hole. See if you can now find another tree that you can fell without hanging that otherwise would have hung in that first tree. It will get easier as you go as the hole in the canopy gets larger.

The problem with leaving them stand in your plot, which you can do, is that over time, you will always be removing dead wood that falls from them from your plot. If you are going to do this and you can't afford large equipment (which is the fastest, easiest, and safest), do it soon. If you wait, some of your dead trees will likely fall in a storm and form widow makers. This will complicate the process.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[bjseiler]

Kind of confirmed for me what I was guessing people would say so I appreciate the feedback guys. I think I will just push this project off another two years until these trees have fallen on their own. I have an employee whose dad died from felling a tree he should not have so I'm overly scared/cautious with something like this.

 

[yoderjac]

Kind of confirmed for me what I was guessing people would say so I appreciate the feedback guys. I think I will just push this project off another two years until these trees have fallen on their own. I have an employee whose dad died from felling a tree he should not have so I'm overly scared/cautious with something like this.

You might consider abandoning the project all together then. Things will be worse in 2 years than they are now. Some of those girdled trees will be widow makers. That makes things much more dangerous. Consider hiring someone who is experienced with a chainsaw to help. There are folks who cut and sell firewood in most areas. You might find a deal with someone who will fell the trees for you in exchange for the firewood.

I completely understand your personal fear, but 4" - 8" diameter should not be an issue for someone experienced with chainsaw work.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[4wanderingeyes]

If you hire someone with an excavator, he can come in, push them over, then remove stumps, rather quickly, a half days work and he should be done. I had someone come in and clean an area out with an excavator, it took 4 hours, that included unloading, and loading, and the work, $500. That would be the safest way.

 

[SD51555]

See if you can get an all plastic 2 gallon sprayer. Every time you're there, spray diesel exhaust fluid in the girdle cuts. That'll speed up the decomp process.

 

[yoderjac]

If you hire someone with an excavator, he can come in, push them over, then remove stumps, rather quickly, a half days work and he should be done. I had someone come in and clean an area out with an excavator, it took 4 hours, that included unloading, and loading, and the work, $500. That would be the safest way.

The safest by far. Around here, it is close to $400 to rent a mini or midi for a day and that without an operator or transport.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

The safest by far. Around here, it is close to $400 to rent a mini or midi for a day and that without an operator or transport.

I rented a mini to make one of my food plots, lets just say, I spent twice as much money, and it looked a lot worse then what the hired guy did. But, I got to play on a mini excavator, so it was all worth it!

 

[jwill1776]

I certainly realize everyone has there own comfort level with felling trees and working with chainsaws but we are talking 4-8" trees, with that size tree you can get away with quite a bit with small equipment and basic cutting knowledgeable.

 

[Chainsaw]

BJ, you are doing the right thing Not using a chainsaw saw if you are not comfortable with them. It is however difficult to manage habitat without cutting some trees at some point. It is best though not to jump right in; attend Game Of Logging courses. Just google it to find a course scheduled in your area. The Game Of Logging courses teach the ins and outs of operating a saw safely and how trees are likely to respond in different situations. My wife and I both attended classes one thru three and are glad we did. Once trained you will likely understand jwill’s astonishment at worrying about cutting 4 to 8 inch trees, but without training things can go wrong in a hurry even cutting a one inch grape vine or a pinned down one inch spring pole sapling.

As for your girdled trees, hiring an excavator person sounds like an appropriate solution. There is a learning curve to operating any equipment and as 4 wandering inferred, a pro can do the job as quickly and cost effectively as renting an excavator and doing the job yourself. Additionally an excavator is probably the best tool for removing the stumps as well.

And as for trading the wood for someone cutting it down;That can be a can of worms or worse; anyone you hire to run a saw on your property, even a professional can get hurt. And ”paying” with firewood could be the same as hiring someone liability wise. Check with your insurance agent for one before hiring anyone to do work on your property. And learn about certificate of insurance assignments also.

Best of luck in your projects and stay safe.

 

[yoderjac]

BJ, you are doing the right thing Not using a chainsaw saw if you are not comfortable with them. It is however difficult to manage habitat without cutting some trees at some point. It is best though not to jump right in; attend Game Of Logging courses. Just google it to find a course scheduled in your area. The Game Of Logging courses teach the ins and outs of operating a saw safely and how trees are likely to respond in different situations. My wife and I both attended classes one thru three and are glad we did. Once trained you will likely understand jwill’s astonishment at worrying about cutting 4 to 8 inch trees, but without training things can go wrong in a hurry even cutting a one inch grape vine or a pinned down one inch spring pole sapling.

As for your girdled trees, hiring an excavator person sounds like an appropriate solution. There is a learning curve to operating any equipment and as 4 wandering inferred, a pro can do the job as quickly and cost effectively as renting an excavator and doing the job yourself. Additionally an excavator is probably the best tool for removing the stumps as well.

And as for trading the wood for someone cutting it down;That can be a can of worms or worse; anyone you hire to run a saw on your property, even a professional can get hurt. And ”paying” with firewood could be the same as hiring someone liability wise. Check with your insurance agent for one before hiring anyone to do work on your property. And learn about certificate of insurance assignments also.

Best of luck in your projects and stay safe.

Good points all around. In my area, most folks cutting for firewood have small crews and workman's comp, but making sure you have good liability insurance is always important whether someone is operating a chainsaw or excavator.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Turkish]

A bulldozer could clear dead 8” trees without even blinking. I’d recommend doing it before they get too dry and brittle. A mini excavator could make quick work of them, too. Pushing over with a tractor is iffy.

An 8-inch tree can certainly kill a chainsaw operator or an open-station tractor operator and cause damage to a tractor cab. But it’s below the threshold of being unacceptably dangerous to heavy equipment, IMO.

 

[bjseiler]

Worked around them for now. I have a guy who has done land clearing for me before with a forestry mulcher. Probably due to have him come back and clean some stuff up anyway. Did get a chance to use my tractor forks the day I got them (still waiting on grapple from EA). Quite surprised at how effective the forks are for picking up logs/trees.

 

[MRBB]

I spent a ton of time clearing dead standing tree's on one property
about 10 acres of one section was hit hard with a blight that killed a ton of pines scattered all over
all I ever did was cut them down with a chain saw,(mostly in winter time , so other tree's didn;t have leaves on them to allow a little easier dropping and better vision on directions things wanted to to go
in sizes from a few inches in dia, to some about 20+ inches, I just paid attention to what way gravity wanted them to go and where I could best drop them so they would fall and not get hung up
any that did hang up, I managed to pull down using snatch blocks and an atv or a small tractor
I would then stack them up in larger piles away from anything I was worried about ruining, as I would come back in winter when snow was down and burn the piles then
had a lot of great times burning things, and bringing some kids and making a winter bin fire, cook some hot dogs and such
and them smaller kids can bend over and help pick a lit of dead branches and likes to also burn and gt rid of(, some times could even get them to come and help build the opiles which is nice too, just had to be extra careful when dropping tree's)


almost every spot I had piles made some would end up in 20x20+ ft spots, I would come back in spring time and seed things, , would turn into nice green spots, some lasting longer, but many would die off as leaves came back to area's

but all I was trying to do was get rid of the dead standing tree's
some yrs many piles of tree's would need to wait a yr or more before burning, which also made some bedding spots for deer, that would lay next to them!

so, IMO< just cut them down just liek you would a live tree and be watchful of where there wanting to go with hinge cuts to help direct them!

the next question you have to decide maybe however is, HOW low to the ground do you wish to cut things
I cut many almost flush with the ground, and left others with higher stumps, as if I could get a tractor near them I could most times up root them and pull the stumps out(would also pile them up and burn in winter time too)
stumps always came out easier for me in spring time after some good thaw has happened and some spring rains, just had to watch ground wasn't TOO soft and get tractor stuck LOL

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Worked around them for now. I have a guy who has done land clearing for me before with a forestry mulcher. Probably due to have him come back and clean some stuff up anyway. Did get a chance to use my tractor forks the day I got them (still waiting on grapple from EA). Quite surprised at how effective the forks are for picking up logs/trees.

One thing that can make it a little bit safer to do yourself, if you have a tractor and loader, or a skid steer, just lift the bucket up above you and slightly push the tree in the direction you want it to fall, then stand under the bucket while cutting. It shields your head of widow makers. I have done that several times, plus it helps in making sure the tree goes where you want it.

 

[MRBB]

One thing that can make it a little bit safer to do yourself, if you have a tractor and loader, or a skid steer, just lift the bucket up above you and slightly push the tree in the direction you want it to fall, then stand under the bucket while cutting. It shields your head of widow makers. I have done that several times, plus it helps in making sure the tree goes where you want it.

well I won't call this any safer, if working alone, , as a fact this would be even more dangerous,
one should NEVER get out of a front access skid steer with the bucket raised, its a major NO NO !
people have been killed doing so!
even with a helper to operate the tractor/skid steer, standing under a bucket is never advice by any safety stand point!

a better idea might be to cut part way and then PUSH things over with a loader bucket
but watch when doing this, as many times tree's that fall kick back up and can bounce back at a operator(more dangerous in skid steer with an open door, and then other flaw is, when things are NOT on level ground, operating at an angle and a raised bucket can have gravity issue's that can make you tip over

again, NOT saying this stuff cannot be done, just saying, there are ricks to doing them, just some advice and info!

another option if you have the equipment might be pulling tree's down, using some snatch blocks you can have a machine safely out of drop zone, hinge cut and have someone pull a little and things will fall as you want and should anything get a little hung up, again, a tug on things can pull them down!'
I know not everyone has things for doing this, but another option if worried about just cutting them alone!