CIR Switch in in smaller patches??

[SWIFFY]

My farm consists of a lot of cool season grasses right now. Im preparing for broadcasting CIR this winter in an attempt to make more thicker cover. My question is, I have a lot of cedars and willow thickets and hills and shrubs etc... will it work to put Switch in small patches and strips instead of large acres. Id like to put and acre here, and a 1/4 acre there, and a 30' x 200' strip there.... Will that work? Or am i wasting my time and the bromes will take it over again anyway?? Thanks!

 

[scott44]

I would say it will work, I have done it for screening and bedding and I'm ringing a couple of plots this next year with switch.

This is what I started with, our north fenceline on the left of the first pic. The other 2 pics are looking the other way, the pics are 3yrs apart.
2012

2013

2014

 

[SWIFFY]

Excellent Scott! Thanks! What method of planting did you use for that??

 

[scott44]

I burned it down with Gly a couple times the summer/fall before and frost seeded it in the winter. I have never sprayed this after that prep year just mow it every spring.

 

[SWIFFY]

Did you use the Oust XP or Atrazine? Or just the Gly?

Thanks so much!

 

[scott44]

I just used Gly but lots of guys use Oust or Atrazine in the spring. Mine might have taken off and been taller earlier if I had but I didn't and I think it turned out ok.

 

[scott44]

Here's Paul's (LC or DBLTree) recommendations on planting switch.

Quick Guide to switchgrass establishment:

Kill cool season grasses the year before by mowing in early August and spraying with 41% glyphosate in late August thru October and add 2 ounces of Oust XP and one quart crop oil concentrate for added residual control. Re-spray any remaining re-growth in late September after remaining fescue seeds have time to germinate.

Keystone Pest is a source for generic Oust XP (SFM 75)

Planting RR soybeans the spring prior is the perfect way to prepare for switchgrass

Frost or dormant seed switchgrass late December thru March with late January to mid February being the most effective time period. Broadcast or drill on frozen soils at 5-10#'s per acre.

Cave In Rock is a preferred variety for whitetail cover (in midwest) because it is tall and thick cover that stands up better in winter.

Osenbaugh’s Prairie Seed Farms is a top quality source where you can also get personal service and answers to questions.

Spray glyphosate and atrazine by late April using 1 quart gly and 2 1/2 quarts atrazine on light soils, 4-5 quarts atrazine on heavy soils or a combination of atrazine and simazine. If weed growth is not present then adding gly is unnecessary, using Oust the fall before usually negates the need for gly in the spring.

Mowing may be required if any weed growth persists but keep mower raised 8-12" above the ground or it can damage or kill young switch seedlings.

 

[JFK52]

Are you planning on doing any controlled burns on this switch grass in the future?

 

[SWIFFY]

I can. I have burnt before but its a pain. I have a lot of nearby cattail swamps and im afraid if things getting away. I got stuck with a $600 bill from the township a few years back... its a long story, so I am a little "gunshy" of burning... but I can do it and will do it again if/when needed.

Thanks scott for the Pauls Quick Guide. Thats basically been my go-to for this whole thing. I am however glad to see it can still be successful even if I cant use all the chemicals mentioned above. I'll do the best I can.

 

[j-bird]

Something to consider would be killing it all off and just letting mother nature do her thing.....succession will kick in and provide saplings, berries and the like for free. I'm not saying the switch will hurt anything, but I'm not sure it will provide much either. I have switch as a field buffer at my place that are in long strips that vary in width for 30' to 120' wide. The deer tend to use the edges the grass create with the timber more so than anything else. If you go with switch I would allow other "weeds" to grow as well and try to make those smaller pockets as diverse as possible - it will benefit other wildlife more so that way in my opinion. I doubt it will have much use to deer unless you get some browse or soft mast growing in it. The long strips can create a screen or an additional edge for deer as well. The only bedding I see in my switch is along an edge with other cover types or in the center of larger planting areas. If you decide to manage switch with fire - it burns real hot! So many shrubs and the like will need protection. Natural succession is one of the best ways I know of to get blackberries and the like for deer and help provide small areas or different aged habitat that may not otherwise exist.

 

[Tap]

I have some micro plots of switch. It's not CIR, but it's doing great. Just bumped a bedded doe out of one patch of it this morning.

 

[SWIFFY]

Appreciate the comments guys!

J-Bird I have kind of considered that. Much of what I have now is brome but is filled with other flowers, plants and shrubs. I have lots of red osier dogwood and TONS of Milkweed on my property, so I dont want to get rid of that. What I have now is pretty diverse, my biggest complaint is just that so much is so short. Im go to try some of the CIR and from what youre saying, even if it doesnt grow it thick it will still fill in with other plants and weeds. Im good with that!

Also, How would it work if I burnt part of what I have now this fall, then broadcasted CIR in the burn over winter (without using any gly or chemical)? Would the CIR mix in with the bromes or would the cool season grasses just grow back as strong as ever and drown out any chance of the switch coming?? I guess it couldnt hurt to try a little test spot.

 

[j-bird]

Since brome is a cool season you need to spray a grass selective herbicide in the fall (this will reduce any damaging affects on non-grass plants you may want to keep). You can then either burn the site come winter or spring if you want, but I would certainly be prepared to spray again come spring if anything that looks like grass starts to grow. The benefit burning gives you is that it exposes bare ground and allows you to see the fresh growth and get that chemical on the grass if needed. Burning can hurt you if you damage shrubs and the like your trying to keep. After you have sprayed in the spring then you can broadcast/drill some switch and hope for the best. Switch hates early competition and what you have remaining may still keep it from doing well. If the switch doesn't take hopefully your other plants will fill in as well. Killing the cool season grasses alone will help thicken what you have....the trick to killing it is spraying it when it is actively growing and that is in the cooler temp months. You may not get rid of all of it, but it should knock it back enough to give you a chance. I would suggest trying a small area of it first and see how it goes.....no point in going nuts if you have no proof that it will work for you. I kill fescue this way. Spray later in the fall, burn it off, and be prepared to spray again come spring.......normally 1 good dose of gly (I'm killing everything) does the trick and then the natural seed bank bounces back with much better stuff. If the switch survives you may not see it for a year or two. But once you have it growing it's pretty tough stuff.

Just burning the brome and trying to get the switch to grow will actually make things worse - in my opinion. By burning everything off, your going to allow everything to start at the same point and the cool season grasses are going to come to life first and get a jump on everything else. Your switch has little to no chance and I think you stand a chance of the other things you listed to actually do worse as well.

You want to try a couple of different management ideas, go for it. Keep them small and document what you did and didn't do and keep close tabs on things....and of course share with us the results.

 

[Prairiesneak]

My 2 cents- any time you want to have a stand of any NWSG long term plan to burn it at least every other year and even doing that(which is the best way to manage a established stand- not my opinion, that's the biology of the warm season grasses) you will be amazed at how succession will try to stay ahead you of esp in small areas. Multiple methods are required in smaller patches in my neck of the woods anyway

 

[Tap]

Burning is not really an option for my micro stand of switch.
IMO, Burning is not required, but it sure would help. If I remember correctly, my stand is in it's 6th year. I mowed it for the 1st time in late March of this year. And yes, there is some woody species trying to get established. Time will tell if I can keep them under control.
The switch is doing great though. It's 6 foot tall every year since year 2.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[SWIFFY]

That sounds good enough to me! I will be able to burn occasionally. If I can establish a 6 ft high stand of primarily switch. That would be great!! Im moving ahead with it and going to try some different size patches.

 

[Prairiesneak]

To clarify if a dominance of switchgrass as far as the NWSG component of a area is the goal you can do it without much fire even in a small area. Go for it!

 

[Tap]

That sounds good enough to me! I will be able to burn occasionally. If I can establish a 6 ft high stand of primarily switch. That would be great!! Im moving ahead with it and going to try some different size patches.

I'll try to post some pics in a day or so.

 

[Tap]

I got some pics. I put the tool in the pic for reference...it's 33 inches, so the tallest of my switch is around 7 feet.
And I was wrong about the age of the stand. I checked my records and this was planted in late spring 2013. Not bad for only 3 years old:)

 

[j-bird]

Another advantage to burning.....it makes find sheds a lot easier!!!!

I planted mid summer and it didn't amount to much the first year. I actually lost it in all the lesser foxtail that showed up. Second year it had a full season to grow and did much better and now I get 5 to 6 feet of actual grass growth.

This is my 790JD tractor and loader in my switch last summer. On average the grass itself got to 5 feet tall or better. The seed heads will reach well to 6 or 7 feet. I like to allow some "weeds" in it as well for diversity. Lots of giant and common ragweed and other stuff in there.