Chestnut mold in container

[H20fwler]

You may want to wait a bit before declaring success. When trees are small much energy comes from the nut and they gradually transition to the root system taking over. When they are small, they are not using as much water and don't have as much variation. You are just entering the stage where the mix plays a more important role. If you are using 18s, I'll warn you that my long-term success planting from them is poor. If you get the watering just right, things may work out at least until you plant them in May. I'm not saying they will die, just that many of mine died and the ones that survived did not flourish. If you have more fertile ground and provide supplemental water when needed they may do better than mine.

One more potential issue you may or may not see is a poor root system. Whitcomb warns against trying to start trees early in Dec or Jan in a greenhouse. The sun intensity is low and it is too low in the sky. The trees look fine above the ground but have very wimpy root systems. Here is a thread that demonstrates that: http://www.habitat-talk.com/index.p...lourescent-transferred-from-qdma-forums.5727/. You may have started your trees late enough that you don't have this problem.

I'm just saying that for the many years I've been growing chestnuts and other trees from seeds and nuts, I've had many times when I declared success to early.

Thanks,

Jack

Thanks for the downer Jack, I get that you know all things about chestnuts and it explains why more guys don't chime in on these threads.
I'm more of a glass half full kind of guy, where I'm planting mine is sweet loamy ground with protection that I can water whenever I want. Hopefully they do as well as the nine footers I have had planted for a couple years.

 

[yoderjac]

Thanks for the downer Jack, I get that you know all things about chestnuts and it explains why more guys don't chime in on these threads.
I'm more of a glass half full kind of guy, where I'm planting mine is sweet loamy ground with protection that I can water whenever I want. Hopefully they do as well as the nine footers I have had planted for a couple years.

Not trying to be a downer, and your input is appreciated. More views are better, even from less experienced folks. I absolutely hope your efforts are successful. I've made many more mistakes than I've had successes over the years and I learn from them. I have learned a lot from guys who did this before me, but in many cases, I had to make some of the mistakes myself.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with trying things differently. I was just trying to put them in context. You have made a great start. Just planting a few nuts in anything, getting them to germinate, and seeing nice green top growth is enough to start the addiction. My intention was not to harsh your mellow, but to encourage you to watch things carefully. If you catch things early and have an idea of what may be causing the issue, you have time to make corrections in your path. In your case, I would simply consider a couple things:

1 - Watch for clamping, browning, or collapsing leaves. These all can be water issues.

2 - When you extract your largest tree from the cell when it is ready, take a careful look a the root system and compare to some pics I that thread I linked.

3 - Consider taking a few of your trees and keeping them in RB2s for the summer and compare your results to the 18s.

4) To be honest, I can't recall if you are using root pruning containers or not. If not, #2 - should be resolve any circling or j-hooking roots before planting. With a non-pruned tap root you should be ok planting in may if they were started late enough. If not, you can also ignore #3.

When I started planting chestnuts (I have poor soils and don't provide supplemental water) a few of the trees planted from 18s survived. They are now a couple feet tall with a small caliper. Now, fast growing trees like chestnuts can easily be 6' tall with a 3/4" caliper in one growing season when planted and grow two or three more feet in the field in the second growing season. It really took me 5 years to really be able to define success. They first few years I though I had achieved great success only to later find I only got part way there.

Keep trying stuff and reporting back with both what seems to be working as well as failures. I think reporting my failures is more useful to many than reporting my successes. I may be doing that soon on my Grafting Chestnuts thread for nut grafting. Fortunately, Merle seems to be having success and I'll learn from my failure and his success.

So, if I was a downer, I apologize. That wasn't my intent.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[sjjbib]

I did order the pro mix soil and it will be hear tomorrow ! I like seeing the different point of views... It does seem like Jack knows his stuff, But hey everyone has different success with different things. I was originally thinking hey I will plant 50 trees and hopefully 40 take and I will plant them and have trees ! I am learning fast that this seems to be more of a experiment then anything.

I checked my nuts this morining and I am still fighting some mold issues.... I contacted the seller and she sent me more nuts out of a different container for free today !! I will probably wait to use my promix with the new nuts ! I actually don't close on my land purchase for another week or so, But I got a chance to get over there and do some walking on some of the property I haven't stepped a foot on yet. Pretty excited !

The last batch of nuts I received I was told they were ready to plant(she had been storing them in fridge), But they didn't have a root radical poking out yet, I just planted them. and have a few sprouting the radical now. I am unsure of the new nuts. If the radical hasent sprouted am I better off putting these in the fridge with some peet moss until they sprout, or just plant them ?

 

[yoderjac]

I did order the pro mix soil and it will be hear tomorrow ! I like seeing the different point of views... It does seem like Jack knows his stuff, But hey everyone has different success with different things. I was originally thinking hey I will plant 50 trees and hopefully 40 take and I will plant them and have trees ! I am learning fast that this seems to be more of a experiment then anything.

I checked my nuts this morining and I am still fighting some mold issues.... I contacted the seller and she sent me more nuts out of a different container for free today !! I will probably wait to use my promix with the new nuts ! I actually don't close on my land purchase for another week or so, But I got a chance to get over there and do some walking on some of the property I haven't stepped a foot on yet. Pretty excited !

The last batch of nuts I received I was told they were ready to plant(she had been storing them in fridge), But they didn't have a root radical poking out yet, I just planted them. and have a few sprouting the radical now. I am unsure of the new nuts. If the radical hasent sprouted am I better off putting these in the fridge with some peet moss until they sprout, or just plant them ?

I totally agree on the multiple points of view! I think at your stage, if you can get a decent number of nuts to germinate and develop top growth you will be doing well for the first go around. There are best practices we can do to reduce the spread of mold but once nuts are infected there is not much we can do and that initial infection can occur before you ever see the nuts.

I'm not sure if this helps, but if a nut produces a root radicle in the fridge, it has a higher probably of surviving once planted. The root radicle means that the nut does not have a severe enough infection of mold to prevent germination. Kept just above freezing in the crisper, you can get mold, but it advances much slower. That is one reason some guys let a root radicle emerge in the fridge and just plant them as they emerge. Nothing wrong with this approach but it does mean you will be dealing with trees at a greater variation of stage of growth than using the alternate approach where they are cold stratified for 60 to 90 days with the proper moisture content and then planted all at once.

It may be useful to know that Wayne and I did an informal uncontrolled experiment. He was using Chinese chestnuts he collected himself and I was using nuts I bought from Chestnut Ridge of Pike County. We used the same technique for cold stratification. I cold stratified mine for 60 day and planted them all. He stratified his for 90 days and planted them. I don't recall the exact number but my germination rate was in the mid 70% range and his was in the high 90% range. There is another thread on here if you search that has charts showing how many nuts germinated each day.

None of my nuts showed root radicles and I think some of his did. I think we convinced ourselves that 90 days of cold stratification will result in better germination rates than 60 days. Germination rates are not the only consideration. There is also timing. Some folks may have room indoors only for 18s, not 1 gals, so they want to time them so the transplant to 1 gals occurs when their weather breaks and they can go outdoors. So, there are reasons to do it differently depending on your overall plan.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[sjjbib]

Just posting a bit of a update. The seller ended up sending me some more chestnuts. I went through my original molded chestnuts, and kept 9 that looked the best, Out of the 9 nuts I have 2 seedling now 8-10inches tall, 1 that is about 3 inches, and 2 more that are just sprouting. I am more or less pleased with this.

I ended up doing the float test on my new 50 nuts. I had about 8 that floated. In the midst of this I ordered 6 rootmaker 1 gallon pots and 6, 3 gallon. I figured I might as well order 2 trays of the 18 cell rootmakers since I was paying for shipping anyways. I planted the new nuts about 2 weeks ago, Still no growth from these, Hopefully in the next week or so I get some growth. If I even get a 50 percent success I will be happy.

One question I do have is watering schedule on the new nuts with no growth. I assume its along the same lines as keeping them moist but not soaked to avoid mold issues ? The room my set up is in has electric heat, Seems to dry out the soil within 3-4 days.

 

[yoderjac]

There is not watering schedule that works. Watering depends on the environmental conditions as well as the stage of growth of the seedling. For nuts that have not produced a root radicle, you want them to be kept most but not wet. For seedlings, if you are using 18s or Root Builder IIs and a well drained professional mix like promix or the equivalent, you can't give them too much water, just too often. Each time you water, saturate them until water is running out of the lowest holes. This is easy at first, but as the roots start filling the gaps in the mix, it becomes more difficult. You need to water slowly, let it soak in, and water more until it drains out the lower holes at this stage.

Instead of watering on a schedule, I find watering by weight is the best way to go. Depending on conditions, the top of the container can be dusty dry yet it still has plenty of water. Chestnuts don't like wet feet, so they need to dry out between watering. Start by filling a container with promix and get a feel for the weight of it. Think of this as the gas tank is on empty. Next, totally saturate the mix as you would when watering as described above. As soon as the water stops dripping out of the lower holes, pick up the container and get a feel for the weight. Consider this the "full" weight. Given those empty and full values, I like to shoot for a quarter tank before watering again. Also watch your trees. Chestnut leaves will droop if they get too dry. If you catch them within a day or so, no harm done. Within an hour or so of watering, the leaves will lift back up. You don't want to let them go this far on a regular basis. That is why I shoot for a quarter tank. If you see leaves beginning to droop, you've waited a little too long.

Note that some trees may use more water than others.

Hope this helps,

Jack

 

[TreeDaddy]

Jack,

would you describe your current method to fertilize chestnut seedlings?

I know Wayne likes the miracle grow orchid food product every 2 weeks during growing season

What are the pros/cons vs osmocote plus that you discussed last year?

 

[yoderjac]

Jack,

would you describe your current method to fertilize chestnut seedlings?

I know Wayne likes the miracle grow orchid food product every 2 weeks during growing season

What are the pros/cons vs osmocote plus that you discussed last year?

I got the osmocote and micromax method from Dr. Whitcomb's papers. Since Osmocote came out with Osmocote plus that has many of the micros, I don't bother with the micromax any more. Osmocote is a slow release fertilizer which has less chance of burning tender roots of seedlings. If you use rain water there is no need to use miracid because rain water will adjust your pH to the right level. I understand some folks that don't use rain water use miracid to slowly adjust the pH.

When I first see top growth, I sprinkle osmocote plus on top of the cell and then add a little mix to cover it. It releases better when wet and the mix on top helps keep it moist. The first growth flush comes from energy in the nut. This timing had the osmocote releasing about when the second growth flush occurs.

When I use larger containers, I mix a 3 gal RB2 full of Promix with a 3 gal RB2 full of mini-pine-bark-nuggets I get from lowes along with two of the pink lids full of Osmocote Plus. (Note: Lately, I had a neighbor take down a tree and had the wood chips put in a pile in my yard to compost. I've been using that mix of chips and compost in place of the mini-pine-bark-nuggets.) I use this mix in both 1 gal and 3 gal RB2s.

Once I transplant into 3 gal RB2s, I begin to add Miracle Grow fertilizer to my water. I typically use a tub of rain water to dunk larger containers. I add Miracle grow to the tub at the rate prescribed for a watering can. Miracle Grow is a fairly mild fertilizer and by the time they are in 3 gal RB2s, I'm less concerned about burning tiny roots.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Davewp70]

To speak to the light adjustment idea, here is what i have done that works for me. You can have a lot of adjustment with between the s hook and loops and chain.

 

[yoderjac]

To speak to the light adjustment idea, here is what i have done that works for me. You can have a lot of adjustment with between the s hook and loops and chain.View attachment 12607

Nice setup, but you don't need all that for adjustability. A single cord going from the ceiling (or top of grow box) to the lowest position is sufficient. You can then tie a prussic knot and attaché it to the light. A prussic knot will easily slide up and down the cord and stay where you leave it. This is the same knot many use with a safety harness.

I also like to tie a second prussic knot above the first. I slide it up to a position where the lights are way up and out of the way for watering. I use hooks at the ceiling to tie the long cord going to the ground. I simply hook the second loop on the hook for a temporary high lift of the lights.

One more trick for grow boxes where you can't easily get to the lights deepest in the box. Simply put a small pulley on the ceiling hook and run a cord from the light through it. Put the prussic knot on the other end and hook the loop to another hook on the top front of the box. You can then adjust the light height from the front without reaching in to the box.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Davewp70]

Dang, Prussic Knot. Like that Idea.

 

[yoderjac]

Here is my "tall grow" open setup using the prussic knot approach:

You can see the extra loops on the string above the prussic knot that connects the lights. I use these loops to quickly raise the lights when necessary up high so I can more easily water plants.

Thanks,

Jack