Changing up my planting strategy

[omicron1792]

Wow. Says allot about your ground and technique. I've had issues with my clover out competeing my "summer release" to some extent......but especially my brassica efforts.

This year I intend to plant some 5' wide strips into my clover/rye from last falls planting. Planning to leave a clover perimeter around the plot......then nuke the areas I want to plant with a tall mix and an adjacent brassica mix.

I'm really considering to nuke the standing clover / rye in late June, with a mix of 2-4d and roundup, then 10 days later plant "brown" into that dead crop prior to crimping it. Same goes for my brassica. I may try just rolling a few areas just to compare and find out what works for me and my ground. (dunno yet)

Just this afternoon I put these mixes and plans on paper to give this some more thought.....but basically below are the process' I am considering for my larger plots. All are subject to change....grin.
View attachment 49696View attachment 49697

You might consider planting then crimping, then spraying gly over the top of that. The crimping gly combo should take out most of your problem issues.

 

[omicron1792]

Wow. Says allot about your ground and technique. I've had issues with my clover out competeing my "summer release" to some extent......but especially my brassica efforts.

This year I intend to plant some 5' wide strips into my clover/rye from last falls planting. Planning to leave a clover perimeter around the plot......then nuke the areas I want to plant with a tall mix and an adjacent brassica mix.

I'm really considering to nuke the standing clover / rye in late June, with a mix of 2-4d and roundup, then 10 days later plant "brown" into that dead crop prior to crimping it. Same goes for my brassica. I may try just rolling a few areas just to compare and find out what works for me and my ground. (dunno yet)

Just this afternoon I put these mixes and plans on paper to give this some more thought.....but basically below are the process' I am considering for my larger plots. All are subject to change....grin.
View attachment 49696View attachment 49697

And I’ll say, it looks like you’ve thought this through very well. I am going to stop using as many white clovers in my food plot areas. Will use in some clover fields. However, white doesn’t perennial this far south as it does for you.

 

[Foggy47]

Thanks for the great input. I'm still a "work in progress" and may evolve a bit with my plans. What you say above may make sense.....and I think I will at least compare that method on 1/2 my ground......then I should KNOW the best methods in the time to come. Any way it goes....I will have some good stuff available for my deer.

.....And I still got my winter rye as an ace in the hole.

I'm cutting back on my white clover a bit too. Using more red clover for sure......and trying crimson. I dont think the crimson will over-winter this far north.....but it still fixes N....and that is a good thing.

 

[omicron1792]

Thanks for the great input. I'm still a "work in progress" and may evolve a bit with my plans. What you say above may make sense.....and I think I will at least compare that method on 1/2 my ground......then I should KNOW the best methods in the time to come. Any way it goes....I will have some good stuff available for my deer.

.....And I still got my winter rye as an ace in the hole.

I'm cutting back on my white clover a bit too. Using more red clover for sure......and trying crimson. I dont think the crimson will over-winter this far north.....but it still fixes N....and that is a good thing.

I wouldn’t scare away from the frosty berseems and fixation balansas either. But if you look at something like green covers mix, they often only have 1-2 pounds of those clovers. Enough to get some benefit but not enough to take over by summer planting time.

 

[Wild Thing]

I REALLY liked this post as it is so informative for me right now. Thanks Wild Thing. I like the worksheets you show here. While my new drill is not the same as yours I will be doing much the same as you this summer. I am picking up my new Great Plains 3P500 next week......so I am looking for all the mixes and settings I can find......like that shown above. I've been making similar "work sheets" lately....in order to prepare for the next year. Have you posted more of these "settings" on your drill? (I am considering starting a GP / LP settings thread to consolidate some of this sort of thing.)

Thanks Foggy - Yes, I have posted other "recipes" here and there on other threads. I haven't been around on this forum much at all since last year but I would be happy to add other mixes when time allows. I will be in Florida and away from my home computer until late April but after than I could chime in.

 

[Wild Thing]

Wild thing this is what I’m going to do (drill brassicas and clovers with my Kasco E-Drill) in late July (northern ny). I thought about another 1/2 of plot with clover and rye drilled in 1st week of sep/last week of aug.

Do you think it’s better to do the whole plot in brassicas and clover late July then broadcast rye in September or split them up 1/2 and 1/2? (Half brassicas + clovers and the other half rye + clovers).

Sorry for the delay in replying @Spike_Horn_Shooter. I have not been around on this forum much lately.

I used to split plantings in all of my food plots (A la the Dbltree method) for many years. Nowadays I prefer cover cropping, keeping something growing for as much of the year as possible, and planting a diversity of plants in each plot to increase soil health and nutrient cycling....so yes, I include the clovers with my brassica planting in July and broadcast rye over that in August. It works out very well for accomplishing the goals stated above.

Best of luck this year

 

[Wild Thing]

Thanks for the great input. I'm still a "work in progress" and may evolve a bit with my plans. What you say above may make sense.....and I think I will at least compare that method on 1/2 my ground......then I should KNOW the best methods in the time to come. Any way it goes....I will have some good stuff available for my deer.

.....And I still got my winter rye as an ace in the hole.

I'm cutting back on my white clover a bit too. Using more red clover for sure......and trying crimson. I dont think the crimson will over-winter this far north.....but it still fixes N....and that is a good thing.

@Foggy47 - I used to think that Crimson Clover would winter kill up here also...until I finally tried it. Crimson has not winter-killed on my property (Zone 4a or 4b - Upper Peninsula of Michigan). I love Red Clover as well but I have found that it is very difficult to terminate without using 2-4d. If you follow 2-4d with another broadleaf planting you have residual to worry about (15 day wait if sprayed at 1 pint/acre or 30 day wait if sprayed at 1 quart/acre). For this reason, I have recently switched up to including Crimson and Fixation Balsamic clovers with my brassica and cover crop plantings. Either of these will terminate much easier with Gly than MRC.

Just something to think about...

 

[Foggy47]

@Foggy47 - I used to think that Crimson Clover would winter kill up here also...until I finally tried it. Crimson has not winter-killed on my property (Zone 4a or 4b - Upper Peninsula of Michigan). I love Red Clover as well but I have found that it is very difficult to terminate without using 2-4d. If you follow 2-4d with another broadleaf planting you have residual to worry about (15 day wait if sprayed at 1 pint/acre or 30 day wait if sprayed at 1 quart/acre). For this reason, I have recently switched up to including Crimson and Fixation Balsamic clovers with my brassica and cover crop plantings. Either of these will terminate much easier with Gly than MRC.

Just something to think about...

Thanks for the advice Wild Thing. My past experience to mow short or set back the clover has not worked out too well for me. I'm going to try a few new varieties of clover this year.

I definineatly want to trend away from the white clovers I have planted to more short duration clovers and perhaps other legumes is they will over-winter. I am in zone 3.....so we do get some very cold temps and winter kill can be an issue. We also have a shorter growing season than many others.....therefore I skip the typical early season summer plots and rely on fall planted crops for the early spring and into June.

My thoughts now are to (1) spray Gly/24d mix in late June / Early July........ (2) then, 2 weeks later drill brassica mix "brown" into dead but standing rye and clovers......then soon after (3) roll the rye to add a mulch layer. (the purpose of letting the crop stand is to penetrate better with the drill).

Would also use the same methods above for adjacent mix of milo/ sorghum Sudan grass / corn / beans/ sunflowers/ buckwheat (vertical screen mix of "Kitchen Sink"). I would leave a green clover perimeter around these strips.

In early September I will drill and/or broadcast the said clovers, and winter rye. Rinse and repeat each year.

This strategy eliminates a spring and early summer planting as the winter rye provides a great source of nutrition when winter finally recedes.....then the clover comes on for may and June food source as the rye provides some good fawning cover from my bears and coyotes. Hopefully the July planting dates work out and I get a bit of rain. Keeping the ground covered helps ALLOT in my sand.

 

[Wild Thing]

Thanks for the advice Wild Thing. My past experience to mow short or set back the clover has not worked out too well for me. I'm going to try a few new varieties of clover this year.

I definineatly want to trend away from the white clovers I have planted to more short duration clovers and perhaps other legumes is they will over-winter. I am in zone 3.....so we do get some very cold temps and winter kill can be an issue. We also have a shorter growing season than many others.....therefore I skip the typical early season summer plots and rely on fall planted crops for the early spring and into June.

My thoughts now are to (1) spray Gly/24d mix in late June / Early July........ (2) then, 2 weeks later drill brassica mix "brown" into dead but standing rye and clovers......then soon after (3) roll the rye to add a mulch layer. (the purpose of letting the crop stand is to penetrate better with the drill).

Would also use the same methods above for adjacent mix of milo/ sorghum Sudan grass / corn / beans/ sunflowers/ buckwheat (vertical screen mix of "Kitchen Sink"). I would leave a green clover perimeter around these strips.

In early September I will drill and/or broadcast the said clovers, and winter rye. Rinse and repeat each year.

This strategy eliminates a spring and early summer planting as the winter rye provides a great source of nutrition when winter finally recedes.....then the clover comes on for may and June food source as the rye provides some good fawning cover from my bears and coyotes. Hopefully the July planting dates work out and I get a bit of rain. Keeping the ground covered helps ALLOT in my sand.

Good thinking Foggy. I have pretty much the same situation as you with the short growing season. I did plant both summer and fall cover crops last year with fairly dissappointing results. I wish we did have a longer growing season as I really like how things work out on Grant Woods' Proving Grounds, and even Buckhunter10's dirt in Ohio. That being said, it is a lot of extra work and expense in areas with short growing seasons like we have in the north. I may plant a little bit of early mixes this year just to use up my leftover seed from last year but I am with you. I will rely on my fall planted clovers and rye to feed my deer from the time the snow melts until it is time to plant July brassicas. They give me great cover for my soil, feed the critters and provide great thatch to drill into when I'm ready to plant - all while added nutrients to my soil so I don't have to use synthetic fertilizers.

 

[Foggy47]

Good thinking Foggy. I have pretty much the same situation as you with the short growing season. I did plant both summer and fall cover crops last year with fairly dissappointing results. I wish we did have a longer growing season as I really like how things work out on Grant Woods' Proving Grounds, and even Buckhunter10's dirt in Ohio. That being said, it is a lot of extra work and expense in areas with short growing seasons like we have in the north. I may plant a little bit of early mixes this year just to use up my leftover seed from last year but I am with you. I will rely on my fall planted clovers and rye to feed my deer from the time the snow melts until it is time to plant July brassicas. They give me great cover for my soil, feed the critters and provide great thatch to drill into when I'm ready to plant - all while added nutrients to my soil so I don't have to use synthetic fertilizers.

This forum helps my plans to evolve into what I described above. Sometimes I need to write and re-write my ideas.....then consider the variables again and again. But what I describe above seems to fit my land and my ability at this point in time. One thing about this regerative ag thing......is to remain flexible and be able to go with plan b is a does not work. grin.

By having a revised plan....you may be able to jump past another year of disappointing results.

 

[Wild Thing]

This forum helps my plans to evolve into what I described above. Sometimes I need to write and re-write my ideas.....then consider the variables again and again. But what I describe above seems to fit my land and my ability at this point in time. One thing about this regerative ag thing......is to remain flexible and be able to go with plan b is a does not work. grin.

By having a revised plan....you may be able to jump past another year of disappointing results.

Agree - This will be my 8th year since converting to 100% no-till planting and cover cropping. Like you, I am still tweaking things every year. It is never too late to stop learning.

 

[Foggy47]

Good video here by Mark at "The Back 40" on Youtube. He puts some good info together for my purposes. I have similar soils and results as he has here. THANKS MARK!