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Dbltree
Guest
1
You bet, clover is a work horse that will give you the most bang for your buck.
Thanks SH :)
You bet, clover is a work horse that will give you the most bang for your buck.
Thanks SH :)
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Thanks Paul & Phil for the great info. Much appreciated.
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Dbltree
Guest
1
I am often asked “what if brassicas don’t make it” (drought, flood, etc.) to which I reply “they will be just as happy and indeed quite content with rye mix” ;)
Brassicas and other crops may be “sexy”, often made so by seed retailers with advertising budget and pretty packaging, but lowly winter is the brown paper bag workhorse they don’t want you know about.
The rye mix especially attractive to whitetails with a combination of highly palatable forage crops. It’s hard to find plants that haven’t been grazed…
Although the brassicas were being heavily grazed, once the rye, oats, peas and FR came up its clear which they prefer right now…
We use a mix because each forage species has different attributes, oats grow fast and provide high forage while the slower growing rye catches up. As colder weather sets in the oats freeze out, but the winter rye thrives all winter continuing to grow down to 34 degrees.
Note the beautiful clover off to a great start!
The rut is just starting and soon bucks will rely on stored fat reserves as they focus on breeding. Every deer I post pictures of is feeding within yards of corn and soybeans, yet they choose the rye mix to put on those fat reserves.
How many more out of camera range?
You can see the winter peas are darn hard to find, I suspect they get planted too early in the south or low deer density allows them to mature. Here the peas and forage radish are the frosting on the cake, the mix as a whole impossible for whitetails to pass up.
At this stage winter rye has the crude protein of any cereal grain, perhaps the reason they seek it out. We have also done a great deal of timber management on this farm, increasing the number of deer it can hold.
Note the hairy vetch (feathery leaf) which combined with red clover will provide all the nitrogen needs for next years brassicas. The rye/brassica rotation once established, is meant to be self sustaining that’s a win win no matter who you are.
The rye mix is perfect in rotation with brassicas or as a single planting for those with time constraints. God created whitetails to live almost anywhere in North America, they are survivors willing to take advantage of almost any food source.
Plan wisely and locate your plot in a hidden, secluded, centrally located spot surrounded by dense thick cover and they will devour whatever you plant for them. The mix is one of the few that stand intense grazing without requiring expensive fencing.
Below is the mix we have used successfully for many years now.
I am often asked “what if brassicas don’t make it” (drought, flood, etc.) to which I reply “they will be just as happy and indeed quite content with rye mix” ;)
Brassicas and other crops may be “sexy”, often made so by seed retailers with advertising budget and pretty packaging, but lowly winter is the brown paper bag workhorse they don’t want you know about.
The rye mix especially attractive to whitetails with a combination of highly palatable forage crops. It’s hard to find plants that haven’t been grazed…
Although the brassicas were being heavily grazed, once the rye, oats, peas and FR came up its clear which they prefer right now…
We use a mix because each forage species has different attributes, oats grow fast and provide high forage while the slower growing rye catches up. As colder weather sets in the oats freeze out, but the winter rye thrives all winter continuing to grow down to 34 degrees.
Note the beautiful clover off to a great start!
The rut is just starting and soon bucks will rely on stored fat reserves as they focus on breeding. Every deer I post pictures of is feeding within yards of corn and soybeans, yet they choose the rye mix to put on those fat reserves.
How many more out of camera range?
You can see the winter peas are darn hard to find, I suspect they get planted too early in the south or low deer density allows them to mature. Here the peas and forage radish are the frosting on the cake, the mix as a whole impossible for whitetails to pass up.
At this stage winter rye has the crude protein of any cereal grain, perhaps the reason they seek it out. We have also done a great deal of timber management on this farm, increasing the number of deer it can hold.
Note the hairy vetch (feathery leaf) which combined with red clover will provide all the nitrogen needs for next years brassicas. The rye/brassica rotation once established, is meant to be self sustaining that’s a win win no matter who you are.
The rye mix is perfect in rotation with brassicas or as a single planting for those with time constraints. God created whitetails to live almost anywhere in North America, they are survivors willing to take advantage of almost any food source.
Plan wisely and locate your plot in a hidden, secluded, centrally located spot surrounded by dense thick cover and they will devour whatever you plant for them. The mix is one of the few that stand intense grazing without requiring expensive fencing.
Below is the mix we have used successfully for many years now.
scott44
5 year old buck +
I have seen the same thing here, there is a 80 acre soybeean field north of us and the farmer who rents my mom's planted wheat this year. The deer may start out in the soys or wheat but by the end of the night they are in my cereal grain and brassica plots. Thanks Paul!
They are keeping mine mowed and it looks like a fairway.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Paul - If you were to plant another plot with something other than the usual rye, wheat, oats, brassica stuff - the usual cast of characters - what would it be? Milo, small burnet, timothy, sunflowers??? Just curious if you planted something off the " beaten path ". You've been doing this for so long, so well - I'm curious what direction you'd go. Put your
" mad scientist " hat on for a few minutes !!! Thanks in advance.
" mad scientist " hat on for a few minutes !!! Thanks in advance.
D
Dbltree
Guest
1
When I was healthy I did on farm consultations and my first question was "what are your goals" in almost every case the landowner wanted to hold and harvest big mature whitetails. That is what I am geared To and so are the habitat improvement's I have worked hard to fine tune, all centered around managing land to the max for whitetails.
If you just want to have fun planting stuff that's cool but if you are serious about whitetails then why waste time with other things? One can plant whatever they wish, there is no right or wrong but what I share is meant to maximize every square foot of habitat.
So what are your goals? ;)
My first question is why?? I have planted almost every imaginable food source and I found that deer don't care and there is no food source that will draw deer for miles so why?? What would be the advantage of planting something else?
When I was healthy I did on farm consultations and my first question was "what are your goals" in almost every case the landowner wanted to hold and harvest big mature whitetails. That is what I am geared To and so are the habitat improvement's I have worked hard to fine tune, all centered around managing land to the max for whitetails.
If you just want to have fun planting stuff that's cool but if you are serious about whitetails then why waste time with other things? One can plant whatever they wish, there is no right or wrong but what I share is meant to maximize every square foot of habitat.
So what are your goals? ;)
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Paul & Mo - It was just a question out of curiosity. I wasn't doubting what you had already refined as far as food plots go. It was more of " if you were going to play or experiment "
with some plot ingredient - what would it be. Nothing more than that - just tinkering. :) At my camp we have much of what you recommend planted and it's doing great. We have existing fields and a new JD to work the fields as needed. Our emphasis has been on increasing thick cover. Like you've said, Paul - cover first. We did some logging and have more scheduled. We planted Norway and white spruce in the cut areas and have some natural regeneration too. But like any group, we have a few non-believers. They don't want to cut anything.
Our goals are to hold more deer on our property. We won't get the kind of bucks you guys have in the Midwest. In the mountains of northern Pa., a 140" buck is an oddity. Our camp woods are more open - not a lot of thermal and security cover. Surrounding acreage, whether State land or private, is thicker. Deer eat at our place & move off to other ground to bed and hide. The whole region is polluted with white, red, and chestnut oaks, hickory, beech - so hard mast is not a problem in most years. I think more thick cover is our biggest need now. As I said above, we have WR, WW, a mix of 5 brassicas, oats, and three plots of clover ( Ladino, Alsike, Dutch white ). We also have about 30 apple, crabapple, and pear trees. Do you guys think improving the cover is the way to go? If so, would you go for one big block of cover or several smaller ones?
with some plot ingredient - what would it be. Nothing more than that - just tinkering. :) At my camp we have much of what you recommend planted and it's doing great. We have existing fields and a new JD to work the fields as needed. Our emphasis has been on increasing thick cover. Like you've said, Paul - cover first. We did some logging and have more scheduled. We planted Norway and white spruce in the cut areas and have some natural regeneration too. But like any group, we have a few non-believers. They don't want to cut anything.
Our goals are to hold more deer on our property. We won't get the kind of bucks you guys have in the Midwest. In the mountains of northern Pa., a 140" buck is an oddity. Our camp woods are more open - not a lot of thermal and security cover. Surrounding acreage, whether State land or private, is thicker. Deer eat at our place & move off to other ground to bed and hide. The whole region is polluted with white, red, and chestnut oaks, hickory, beech - so hard mast is not a problem in most years. I think more thick cover is our biggest need now. As I said above, we have WR, WW, a mix of 5 brassicas, oats, and three plots of clover ( Ladino, Alsike, Dutch white ). We also have about 30 apple, crabapple, and pear trees. Do you guys think improving the cover is the way to go? If so, would you go for one big block of cover or several smaller ones?
D
Dbltree
Guest
1
1
I have already done all the testing of food sources and that is why I encourage the combination that I do. There is zero advantage to adding others except in areas not suitable for these crops
Work on cover, do multiple areas each year and when everything is done, start over! :)
1
I have already done all the testing of food sources and that is why I encourage the combination that I do. There is zero advantage to adding others except in areas not suitable for these crops
Work on cover, do multiple areas each year and when everything is done, start over! :)
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Thanks Paul. We'll keep working on cover. We're already fans of your LC mixes and will keep planting them. We're interested to see what the GFR does for our soil next spring. We have some heavy clayish soil to break up.
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Dbltree
Guest
1
It’s mid-November and peak breeding is the rut stage at this point. Bucks hammer the plots relentlessly, not for but in search of does in estrus. Does weary of constant hounding, mostly by immature bucks, begin to avoid plots except at night. They also start avoiding their usual runways, while mature bucks beat the runways to death.
Often 4-5 year old bucks circle feeding areas, using their noses rather than eyes as is often thought. They are wise and efficient compared to 2-3 old bucks, so while it's important to screen the plots it's not necessary to break up the plot itself. I never killed a buck (archery ) in the food plot, I hunted funnels I created using hinging techniques.
None of the bucks in these pictures are interested in feeding on food of any kind, they are focused does in estrus. Upon finding one the doe often leads him back her bedding area or the pushes her to a remote field away from other deer.
Contrary to the ads we are bombarded with food sources are not going to attract monster whitetails this time of year, does are. Food sources are also incapable of producing giants, only age and genetics can accomplish this.
.
I mention these things because many new landowners understand little about whitetails and less about habitat. Like a young person we can be vulnerable to those shouting that they have easy answers, just get out your wallet! As with all things in life we have educate ourselves and sort fact from hype.
When I asked Jesus into my heart I devoted as time as possible to serving Him by serving others and sharing the Truth in hopes they will follow suit. Funny thing however, the Light is frightening to some for many reasons, like me we cannot be dragged or forced. We need to be beckoned to it like spring rainbow, be it spiritual or management options for your farm. The things I share are true and with variations will work over much of the country.
Trail cams don’t lie and provide invaluable information about whitetails, how they live and interact with native and planted habitat. My good friend Bob killed a mature droptine this fall that though 6 years old, had never set foot on his farm before this spring. Once there he roamed the length of the 1000 acre farm, though mature bucks typically have a home range half that size. Where this buck had been living and why he moved remains a mystery but I suspect he remained due to the habitat improvements Bob has made to his farm.
The rye mix is just one very small piece of the habitat pie for Bob like it is for us, it's not the reason that old droptine moved in, it's the whole habitat pie.
Point being don't fall for the hype, I just received an email advertising whitetail oats on sale for nearly $40 a bag!! Typically we pay $12-14 for certified seed oats and slightly more for winter rye. There are only two reasons to pay that much for seed oats, ignorance and greed and hopefully I can help address both issues in the time I have left.
The average hunter landowner didn't grow up farming and hunting all types of wildlife as I did (if you did you were blessed!)
When one's only information comes from ads in hunting magazines its little wonder people think they have to pay outrageous prices for seed.
Society today places so much emphasis on "winning" rather than family and faith so, desperate to find acceptance some will pay anything for seed and gadgets. Surely that will allow us to skip all the hard work and simply bag a giant whitetail. When one's only information comes from ads in hunting magazines its little wonder people think they have to pay outrageous prices for seed.
I urge all of you to keep things in perspective and your priorities in order, enjoy hunting these whitetails God has blessed us with, at same time don't place them above all else.
The rye mix shown above was notill drilled in early September after mowing and spraying. The plot is surrounded by 180 bushel corn which deer ignore, after harvest they will take advantage of spilled grain then focus on the rye mix /brassicas there on out.
Use common sense when planning habitat improvements, ignore the ads and implement a crop rotation like shown below as part of your habitat pie....
It’s mid-November and peak breeding is the rut stage at this point. Bucks hammer the plots relentlessly, not for but in search of does in estrus. Does weary of constant hounding, mostly by immature bucks, begin to avoid plots except at night. They also start avoiding their usual runways, while mature bucks beat the runways to death.
Often 4-5 year old bucks circle feeding areas, using their noses rather than eyes as is often thought. They are wise and efficient compared to 2-3 old bucks, so while it's important to screen the plots it's not necessary to break up the plot itself. I never killed a buck (archery ) in the food plot, I hunted funnels I created using hinging techniques.
None of the bucks in these pictures are interested in feeding on food of any kind, they are focused does in estrus. Upon finding one the doe often leads him back her bedding area or the pushes her to a remote field away from other deer.
Contrary to the ads we are bombarded with food sources are not going to attract monster whitetails this time of year, does are. Food sources are also incapable of producing giants, only age and genetics can accomplish this.
.
I mention these things because many new landowners understand little about whitetails and less about habitat. Like a young person we can be vulnerable to those shouting that they have easy answers, just get out your wallet! As with all things in life we have educate ourselves and sort fact from hype.
When I asked Jesus into my heart I devoted as time as possible to serving Him by serving others and sharing the Truth in hopes they will follow suit. Funny thing however, the Light is frightening to some for many reasons, like me we cannot be dragged or forced. We need to be beckoned to it like spring rainbow, be it spiritual or management options for your farm. The things I share are true and with variations will work over much of the country.
Trail cams don’t lie and provide invaluable information about whitetails, how they live and interact with native and planted habitat. My good friend Bob killed a mature droptine this fall that though 6 years old, had never set foot on his farm before this spring. Once there he roamed the length of the 1000 acre farm, though mature bucks typically have a home range half that size. Where this buck had been living and why he moved remains a mystery but I suspect he remained due to the habitat improvements Bob has made to his farm.
The rye mix is just one very small piece of the habitat pie for Bob like it is for us, it's not the reason that old droptine moved in, it's the whole habitat pie.
Point being don't fall for the hype, I just received an email advertising whitetail oats on sale for nearly $40 a bag!! Typically we pay $12-14 for certified seed oats and slightly more for winter rye. There are only two reasons to pay that much for seed oats, ignorance and greed and hopefully I can help address both issues in the time I have left.
The average hunter landowner didn't grow up farming and hunting all types of wildlife as I did (if you did you were blessed!)
When one's only information comes from ads in hunting magazines its little wonder people think they have to pay outrageous prices for seed.
Society today places so much emphasis on "winning" rather than family and faith so, desperate to find acceptance some will pay anything for seed and gadgets. Surely that will allow us to skip all the hard work and simply bag a giant whitetail. When one's only information comes from ads in hunting magazines its little wonder people think they have to pay outrageous prices for seed.
I urge all of you to keep things in perspective and your priorities in order, enjoy hunting these whitetails God has blessed us with, at same time don't place them above all else.
The rye mix shown above was notill drilled in early September after mowing and spraying. The plot is surrounded by 180 bushel corn which deer ignore, after harvest they will take advantage of spilled grain then focus on the rye mix /brassicas there on out.
Use common sense when planning habitat improvements, ignore the ads and implement a crop rotation like shown below as part of your habitat pie....
D
Dbltree
Guest
1
My friend David sent pictures from his place down in Texas, he was by locals not to bother trying to plant food plots because they would never grow.
I reckon it's a good thing he didn't listen to 'em
The area typically grows hay and pasture which means most years the dbltree /LC rotations will do very well.
These mixes will grow from Maine to Texas and ND to MN, they don't require expensive and often unreliable fencing.
Dave tried soybeans, cowpeas and lab lab, but of course they were quickly eaten off and he was left with a dirt plot.
If you are just starting out or tired of spending money on grain crops that never make it to hunting season, consider the following :
My friend David sent pictures from his place down in Texas, he was by locals not to bother trying to plant food plots because they would never grow.
I reckon it's a good thing he didn't listen to 'em
The area typically grows hay and pasture which means most years the dbltree /LC rotations will do very well.
These mixes will grow from Maine to Texas and ND to MN, they don't require expensive and often unreliable fencing.
Dave tried soybeans, cowpeas and lab lab, but of course they were quickly eaten off and he was left with a dirt plot.
If you are just starting out or tired of spending money on grain crops that never make it to hunting season, consider the following :
:
strawhead
5 year old buck +
Nice post Dbltree. We've had great success and usage of your WR mix until the snows came the last to falls-winter. Browsing has the mix only 3-4" tall before this year's 15" snowfall, but it was green and regrowing. There is digging for remaining brassica mix, right next to the WR mix. I'll try to get a better picture, but brassica mix is in the foreground and cereal grain mix is in the background. No digging at all in the cereal grain mix. Maybe it's just a conditioning-training thing? 
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Paul - I just wanted to touch base and let you know we have a strip of PTT, GFR, and DER, - and a plot of W. Rye, oats, Dutch white clover and a few lbs. of radishes together. Next to that plot, we have around 1 acre of WW. The deer are clipping ALL of it !!! Many fresh tracks & droppings in those plots. As the acorns begin to decay in the woods, the greens are gonna be the hot ticket. Thanks for all the guidance, Paul. Books can't beat your hands-on experience!!!
D
Dbltree
Guest
1
Thanks I am glad working for you
Thanks I am glad working for you
shawnv
5 year old buck +
Interesting observation this year. On my 30 acre parcel which is on the edge of big woods and ag I did a mix real similar to what you have Paul this and the deer have mowed it down to the ground, it might be 2" tall under the snow right now. On my home place in ag land I had winter oats planted as a cover crop for for garlic farm and the deer at the straight oats 3x as heavy as they have on my plot with the same mix that is on the 30. A couple local farms also planted winter wheat this fall so I'm not sure it that affected the use on the mix plot at home too. They also have ignored the big & beasty strips I planted so far and are now feeding in the standing corn 1/2 mile away for the most part.
Question: Why do you use spring oats in your mix rather than a winter oat?
Question: Why do you use spring oats in your mix rather than a winter oat?
D
Dbltree
Guest
1
There really is no such thing but in the south a few variety's have been developed that last a few weeks longer then spring oats.
Use them if you wish but the winter rye work's all winter so why pay two or three time's as much for oats
There really is no such thing but in the south a few variety's have been developed that last a few weeks longer then spring oats.
Use them if you wish but the winter rye work's all winter so why pay two or three time's as much for oats
shawnv
5 year old buck +
I used rye too and used oats because I knew know one else close by would be planting oats so I had oats and rye mixed at a 60-40 ratio along with crimson clover and winter peas.
The one plot that got mowed down also have some Tecomate Brassica Seed my dad had already purchased so I tossed it in too.
The one plot that got mowed down also have some Tecomate Brassica Seed my dad had already purchased so I tossed it in too.
