CDAC Meeting Tonight


5 year old buck +
I went to the Manitowoc County CDAC meeting tonight. Talk about a farce dreamed up by the DNR, this has to be one of their biggest. They try to tell you in one sentence that the DNR has no control over the board but it was the DNR that picked the people sitting on board. Also the DNR forester and the DNR wildlife biologist send their recommendations along with the CDAC recommendation to the NRB who can follow either recommendation or the NRB can do what they want. Then they read the results of the online survey which over-whelmingly supported increasing or manitaining the deer herd as did the majority in attendance at the meeting and what does the board do, they all vote to decrease the deer herd in Manitowoc County for the next 3 years. At the public input section of meeting I got to speak, was only suppose to talk for 3 minutes, I think I got 10 minutes. I asked the DNR wildlife biologist how much the herd kill was up in county, she answered 3 percent but a very large deer registration in next county closed so all of those registrations came to Manitowoc County, so in fact the deer kill could have went down. She also said that in 2013 the deer kill was up, when asked how much she said she wasn't sure. Some one in the audience had the figure it was 7 deer, what the heck that isn't what normal people in biology would say is an upward trend. She did not no the numbers for 2010, 2011 and 2012. I think that was because the numbers went down in each of those years. Manitowoc County had the largest attendance of any county at this meeting, for what, as public input meant nothing. What a waste of my time and every person that attended.
This doesn't sound like a good start for the new system.
What is CDAC?
Blowin smoke, blowing smoke
What is CDAC?[/QUOTE
CDAC stands for County Deer Advisory Committee. I could think of a better thing that it stands for. The whole idea wreeaks of bull crap.
Oh oh...this is sounding verrrrrry familiar to MN's public stakeholder process o_O

It is almost identical. I wonder if Wisconsin DNR went to Minnesota to get this model.
There has already been talk for months of a new audit in WI if things like this do not change. The bad part is, we will have to wait until spring to see which way the NRB(I predict they will follow the DNR recommendations to the letter and leave the public out in the cold) votes before we have any grounds to seek an audit of the "new"(MN based) stakeholder process. At that point we will be locked in to the "recommendation" for the next 3 years, new audit or not.:mad: In the end I don't think any of this is going to matter, anywhere. The DNR's all over the country are now totally controlled by politics(whether they admit it to you or not) and no matter how many "audits" are performed the DNR's are always going to have loopholes built into whatever system(smokescreen) they chose to appease the masses, similar to what we are seeing now. You can call for a return of power from the legislatures to the DNRs all you want, it won't matter, because the "state" pays all their salaries(and the legislatures vote on their pay raises), and all that will happen is that the DNRs will do what they are told under the table if they would like to see a pay rate increase in their future. :mad:Thank goodness WI shows more personal trigger restraint than MN hunters, I believe it may be our only hope. If the WI DNR decides to vote for decreases in areas where it is not justified, you will see a huge push for more trigger restraint. If the DNR thinks they have a bunch of leftover tags now, wait until they raise the quotas to increase the kill.;)
:mad:Thank goodness WI shows more personal trigger restraint than MN hunters, I believe it may be our only hope. ;)

Sounds to me like WI only has pockets of trigger control, just like MN. I thought the 2014 WI harvest was over 50% off the peak. Does not ring as trigger restraint if that is true.
While "pockets" of trigger restrain there may be, there are MANY more of them in WI than MN. I also don't think it is as hard to convince the hunters of WI to lay off the trigger. We have been doing it for a long time over here. There has been a natural distrust for anything the DNR does over here on a statewide scale for many, many years, which you also don't have in MN. I think if the public input at these meetings gets snubbed on a large scale, it won't be near as difficult to point out these discrepancies to the hunters of WI and get them onboard with some voluntary changes as what you are finding in MN. Any way you look at it, DNRs all around the country are doing these very same things and they do not look like they are going to change any time soon. The only way to get the changes we want is going to be through self control and that means fewer license sales from guys going hunting out of state, and the explosion of deer that will take place if enough guys lay off the antlerless deer. 50% off peak is really a relative figure. At peak, we had way too many deer almost everywhere in the state, even in the Central Forest Zone where I hunt.
Imo, trigger control in wisconsin public lands are non existent. Last year hunters in the northern zone counties complained about seeing no deer yet they dumped 28,000 antlerless. This year the dnr issued no doe tags in these northern zones yet they still harvested 10,000 antlerless vis the free youth doe tag which were filled by gun adult party hunters. South of hwy 29, it's predominantly private lands which are managed by the landowners. We backed off out doe harvest this year by 15. The Cdac has about as much clout as the CCC. Which is basically no clout.

Speaking of the no antlerless tags in the Northern Forest and still harvesting 10,000 antlerless deer, I asked about this also with the DNR person and her comment was that not all but a very large number of those antlerless shot up North were mistakes by adults that didn't understand the new regulations. She also said that game wardens investigated and in most cases gave the hunter a free pass and did not issue a citation. This is total BS. My blood pressure must have been off the charts after leaving this meeting. They now also include crop damage permit kills in the 9 day gun season statistics.

I call BS on what she said. A very large number were mistakes and wardens gave them a free pass? Total BS. Wallenfang said on the conference call they were fully aware of all the youth tags filled by gun party hunting adults and that will change next year. Free pass and no ticket? BS
They will make up BS like that, knowing full well that if they can play it off as the reason for the high kill in a no-doe zone to the Fudd's, they won't receive near as much pressure from the hunters to have to eliminate the youth crosstagging. It seems like an affective weapon for the DNR to keep on killing does, 10,000 harvested where there should have been 0. My guess is Wallenfang is blowing smoke up our a$$es and nothing in the area of adults cross filling youth tags will be changed at all. They don't really want it changed, it gives them an out as to why they are still allowing the taking of antlerless deer in under populated areas that make no sense to have any antlerless kill at all.

I call BS on what she said. A very large number were mistakes and wardens gave them a free pass? Total BS. Wallenfang said on the conference call they were fully aware of all the youth tags filled by gun party hunting adults and that will change next year. Free pass and no ticket? BS

She said it in front of several people and was in response to me asking if they were going to give out youth tags to every person under the age of 18 again and allow the cross tagging by adults again next year. There was no hesitation as she explained that it was not all youth tags that were used in the amount of antlerless deer shot in the North. So as wisc said this may be the spin the DNR is going to use to keep on allowing the youth tags to be cross tagged by adults.
I lieu of the fact that our DNR CDAC reps for Forestry and Wildlife Biology will be sending in recommendations that are the exact opposite of what the people have decided, I have provided a link to the folks who will make the "real" decision come spring. The link will take you to a profile page where you can see the members of the Natural Resources Board. These are the folks that will vote to keep the Committee recommendations or use the recommendations provided by the DNR. It looks like they are all highly educated and most have degrees in areas of wildlife related subjects and it looks like many are hunters. Lets get these folks on our side, no one that has been in rural areas of WI believes that we have a massive overabundance of deer with the exception of a few of the "trouble" areas which have pockets of high populations. Lets all email or call these folks to see what they think of the DNR liaison members positions.

Quick rundown:

WILLIAM BRUINS : Farm Bureau guy, Juneau, Adams, Waushara, Marquette area, owner of large family dairy, so maybe a hard sell, but he does have a bunch of grandkids, so we may be able to exploit the "kids aren't seeing any deer" angle.

PRESTON D. COLE : Director of Public Works for Milwaukee, Forestry degree so may be hard to turn away from the Foresters recommendation, worked for the MO MDC, so we may be able to use that to our advantage, as the MDC seems to work more with the hunting public than most other DNRs.

TERRY HILGENBERG : Realtor, resides in Shawano, wife is a teacher and they are active in kids fundraisers, possible to use the "deer hunting land sales will be down if the herd doesn't improve" argument and the "kids" thing on this one.

GREG KAZMIERSKI : Mukwonago, owner of an outdoor sporting goods business, "sales will be down if the herd doesn't improve", landowner, background in ag, but also an avid sportsman.

CHRISTINE THOMAS : Plover, Dean and Professor of Resource Management at UW-SP, tons of degrees and awards, developer of the "Becoming an Outdoors-Woman" program, most notable award for us "1995 Whitetail Deer Conservationist of the Year", hunter. holder of positions with the Dept of the Interior and the Boone and Crockett Club. Shouldn't be hard to get this one on board with the "wife is getting disgruntled with not seeing any deer" position.

JANE WILEY : Marathon Co, again tons of degrees and appointments, helped develop rules for the Stewardship Grant Advisory Council, likes bicycling, fishing, small game, turkey, and waterfowl hunting, maybe the "I like seeing deer while bicycling and I haven't been seeing as many lately" pitch will work with this one.

GARY ZIMMER : Laona, multiple degrees from UW-SP, Biologist for the Ruffed Grouse Society, Certified Wildlife Biologist, likely ties to timber industry, 3rd party forest certification auditor, big into Boy Scouts, owns land in Forest Co(no deer there), participates as a citizen monitor for numerous wildlife surveys each year (understands the public?), could use the "kids" angle again.

Here is the link to the bio page:

and the contact info page:

I believe there may be some truth to hunters not understanding the new regulations and harvesting anterless deer which they did not have a tag for. One of my neighbors hunted all season in the central forest zone under the believe that the free anterless farmland tag could be used to harvest a doe because he assumed we were in a farmland zone. Luckily he never saw a doe otherwise he would have shot it even though he had no intent to violate the regulations. I'm sure he wasn't the only one. He is just your average WI hunter who buys his license at the last minute and doesn't keep in touch with the changing regulations each year. If the DNR gave guys like this a break, shame on them.
Joe Hunter. "There are farms all over around here, this farmland tag must be valid here"
Speaking of the no antlerless tags in the Northern Forest and still harvesting 10,000 antlerless deer, I asked about this also with the DNR person and her comment was that not all but a very large number of those antlerless shot up North were mistakes by adults that didn't understand the new regulations. She also said that game wardens investigated and in most cases gave the hunter a free pass and did not issue a citation.
So by the sound of this, even if the rule gets changed like Wallenfang suggested they were going to do, it won't make any difference. Do the violators of those "new" rules get a free pass as well? After all, they may not have understood the "new" regulations. So of course, we must give them a "free pass" and another antlerless harvest in an area where it is not warranted. My question is, what tags did the DNR say these idiots could use? Did the DNR confiscate those deer? What registration station would have let them register these deer? Did the DNR tell the Reg stations it was ok to do this or did they have to verify each kill. That whole thing smells a bit if you ask me.
I probably should have just posted the link, but here goes. Pasted from the Milwaukee Journal/Sentential. Pay particular attention to the red sentence near the bottom and the parts about the CDAC's having more input. These comments are by one of the NRB Board Members that will vote on the new harvest goals. I like this guy, he seems like our friend, I will be emailing him tonight to express my distrust in the "DNR's system" and my hope that his voice of reason will be heard by the other Board Members.

Deer hunt was 'rebuilding year,' DNR expert says

As the 2014 Wisconsin gun deer hunting season settles into the history books, state wildlife officials on Wednesday provided a brief summary to the season and unveiled proposals that could give more power to the fledgling system of County Deer Advisory Councils.
"To invoke sports terminology, I think we'd probably call it a rebuilding year," said Tom Hauge, director of wildlife management for the Department of Natural Resources, speaking to the Natural Resources Board.
DNR officials traditionally give a recap of the gun deer season to the board at its December meeting. This year was notable for declines in deer harvest and license sales.
Hunters registered 191,550 deer in the gun deer season, a 15% decrease from 2013 and the lowest since 1982, according to preliminary DNR data.
The 2014 harvest included 90,336 bucks (down 8% from 2013) and 101,214 antlerless deer (down 21%). The nine-day gun deer season ran Nov. 22-30.
Hauge noted the lower deer harvest was linked to "very strong" DNR efforts "to help our northern forest herds recover from two years of hard winters."
Nineteen counties in northern Wisconsin had "buck only" regulations this year, rules designed to reduce the harvest of antlerless deer and help deer numbers increase.
The season also featured a change to county management units and a reduction in the number of antlerless deer tags statewide.
The number of license sales also was down. The DNR reported sales of 608,711 gun deer licenses, a drop of 24,891 (4%) from 2013. The license sales total was the lowest since 1976.
The season set a record for hunter safety, however. The state reported four non-fatal shooting incidents (earlier DNR reports had the number at three) over the nine-day season. The previous low was five incidents (three non-fatal and two fatal) in 2004.
The shooting injury rate of 0.66 per 100,000 hunters this year was also lowest on record, said Todd Schaller, DNR chief warden.
The board quickly shifted gears and began looking toward the 2015 deer season.
Next on the agenda: A request to hold public hearings on proposed changes to deer management regulations.
Several recommendations from the 2012 Deer Trustee Report were put in place this season under emergency rules. Permanent rules need to be approved by July 1 to be in effect for the 2015 hunting seasons.
The DNR presented a draft of the permanent rules Wednesday. It included several changes, including a proposal to place more emphasis on input from the County Deer Advisory Councils. The CDACs formed in September; each is made up of local residents representing a range of stakeholders, including hunters, agriculture, forestry, tourism and transportation. A local delegate of the Wisconsin Conservation Congress chairs each council.
The permanent rule ends "bonus buck," a rule under which hunters can earn an extra buck tag by shooting an antlerless deer.
However, the permanent rule would create a process by which CDACs could ask for changes in regulations such as bonus buck.
"These CDACs have to know they have skin in the game or this whole system falls apart," said Greg Kazmierski, a board member from Pewaukee.
In addition to bonus buck, the councils could vote to influence other local deer management regulations, including: holding a four-day December antlerless deer hunt; allowing the harvest of bucks during the Holiday Hunt; holding an antlerless-only deer season; instituting antler point restrictions (four points on a side or wider than the ears) in a selected season; or limiting buck harvest to the first two days of a season.
As written, the proposal would require two-thirds of the CDACs in a zone to approve a change. However, the DNR is likely to seek input on whether the public prefers "county only" or "zone wide" votes to influence such changes. Tim Andryk, DNR attorney, said the final rule could be drafted either way based on public input and board preference.
Nine public hearings are planned around the state in January.
I don't remember seeing this posted yet, my bad if it was....

I find it interesting that Waupaca County probably has the highest dpsm and has a reccomendation of maintain.
Just saw an ad in the local shopper asking people to go to the their county meetings. Ad was paid for by local conservation clubs and a chapter of Whitetails Unlimited.