Can you really get away with less Pelletized lime

[FarmerDan]

No hijack intended. For Farmer Dan and Yoderjac: how about building organic matter? Where does that fit in?

I'm a divergent. While building soil OM matter is a noble mission most of us fall way short of our intentions. Don't get me wrong there's plenty of science telling us the benefits of a soil rich in organic matter are huge! But, it takes time, understanding, and a lot of management ability. You ask where it fits in - for food plotting I assume. I'm blessed to have soils that are sufficient. If you don't, and the only way to really tell is to sample and pay for the OM test, you have a decision to make. You invest the time and resources required to add OM or you plant something that is adapted for your situation. If you can't find something that works, don't you need to question the wisdom of using that space for food plots?

 

[FarmerDan]

I know that this is a too general question. What are the minimum size fields for corn and soybeans?
Now I am asking for guidance. Last year, in one field I planted sudangrass, buckwheat and Arvika peas on June 7. I brush hogged 8/1 as I read that mowing sudangrass is supposed to greatly increase the root growth. I seeded peas, soybeans, radish, clovers, brassicas and rye 8/23 and cultipacked. The sudangrass was laid down but was not killed and regrew after the mowing. We had an unusual summer in upper Michigan, very cool, many lows in the 40's. I overseeded with rye 9/21 and 10/4 as i did not see too much growth except for the sudangrass.
Now I am waiting on the rye in spring and see if I have any clovers. Soil Ph in this field is 6.1. Any suggestions?

Minimum size? Only saying to make a point, for corn and soybeans if you asking that question then you probably don't have enough land. There are solid strategic and nutritional reasons for including corn and/or soybeans in a plot. Corn doesn't work for me because of where I am. I would want it to last well into the hunting seasons, but, no matter how much I plant for plots (my max is 10 acres) there's nothing left by mid-August. Anyhow, if you buy a bag of corn seed you'll be seeding three acres, more or less. Soybeans, I hear it said, three acres is a minimum else they get wiped out. Anything less than that I don't think helps nutritionally or strategically - regardless of the plan.

So, I guess I would have to ask, what do you hope to accomplish by planting corn and/or soybeans?

Wait on the clover. You might be surprised.

 

[yoderjac]

Minimum size? Only saying to make a point, for corn and soybeans if you asking that question then you probably don't have enough land. There are solid strategic and nutritional reasons for including corn and/or soybeans in a plot. Corn doesn't work for me because of where I am. I would want it to last well into the hunting seasons, but, no matter how much I plant for plots (my max is 10 acres) there's nothing left by mid-August. Anyhow, if you buy a bag of corn seed you'll be seeding three acres, more or less. Soybeans, I hear it said, three acres is a minimum else they get wiped out. Anything less than that I don't think helps nutritionally or strategically - regardless of the plan.

So, I guess I would have to ask, what do you hope to accomplish by planting corn and/or soybeans?

Wait on the clover. You might be surprised.

For the new folks, I should also add that I don't plant corn for feeding deer. I use a 7:1 ratio of soybeans to corn. I'm in a zone where summer is the major stress period. The corn has several uses. One, it provides a little vertical cover in the field. With that ratio it is enough to encourage more daytime use but not too thick for my hunters to be able to get an ethical shot. It is the grass component for building OM. I don't fertilize for corn either. At this light rate, the N banked by the previous years beans and cover crop along whit the low percentage that is in the MAP I use to achieve my P requirements for beans, they get sufficient N to produce several full cobs per stalk. As Dan says, my cobs are gone well before the season but the corn still serves its purpose.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Bowman]

To Farmer Dan and Yoderjac: I am looking for "suggested" food plot rotations. I planted the sudangrass and mowed for the increased root growth and hopefully increased organic matter. I might need to try something else as the sugangrass continued to grow and may have stunted the brassicas. I did overseed with rye. I hoped that cultipacking the sudangrass would crimp the sudangrass. That did not happen and the sudangrass continued to grow. May have to cut closer again for fall seeding. I am waiting for spring to see the rye and clover. That field is about 1 1/4 acres. That field had the best growth and coverage ever.
I have other fields in clovers and another .65 acre that I will remove cut down trees for firewood that adjoins a similar sized field in clovers. Not trying to be too romantic, but I am trying to improve my sandy soil. I have no particular desire to plant corn and soybeans, but am looking for something in addition to fall planted cereal grains and clovers as I want to have more diversity.

 

[yoderjac]

I'm in zone 7a, not 4b, so I'll let others give you specific rotations that work well for your area. Amendments move through sandy soil much faster than soils with heavy clay. I would surface apply any amendments and select crops that do well without tillage. Buckwheat is a good soil building crop for the summer part of a rotation. When I surface broadcast a cover crop into my standing beans, I like a combination of Winter Rye, Crimson Clover, and PTT or GHR. The Crimson Clover acts as a reseeding annual in my area but it may not in yours. It bounces back with the Winter Rye in the spring. The WR doesn't provide much food in the spring because it is getting tough, but the crimson does. If beans/corn are not a good fit for you for your summer part of a rotation, Buckwheat may be a good fit. It has a very wide planting window and a cultipacker should be sufficient to press surface broadcast seed into the soil. It will actually germinate in soil temps as low as 45, but it is lethargic for me at that temp. I'd wait for a minimum soil temp of 65 and the optimal soil temp for Buckwheat is 80 degrees. It is a short term crop 60-90 days so you should have time to plant your fall cereal grains. A light mix of a brassica like Groundhog Radish (no more than 2 lbs/ac) is a good addition to a cereal/clover mix.

I can provide some of the big picture context of trying to balance feeding wildlife and managing for long-term sustainable soils. I can talk about what works in my area. But there are so many considerations between deer density, soil types, climate, equipment/time availability that all need to be balanced as well. I'm reluctant to provided a "suggested rotation" for someone in a completely different zone. I can offer up candidate crops like above for consideration, but someone from your zone with similar objectives can probably help you more.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[FarmerDan]

What jack said.

Building Organic Matter - Keep something growing - all the time! Tough given the winters where you are.
Simply put, grow crops with lots of root mass or lots of surface residue. I'm a big fan of roots! Corn can produce up to two tons of roots. Soybeans only about a third of a ton. Forages, grasses, and small grains over two tons. Find and apply manure. Organic food waste is great too. Practice REDUCED tillage. Stop erosion. Sit back and enjoy what the Good LORD has provided!

What to grow in you food plots? I'd say late nature provide the variety. You fill in where she has not provided. I have to ask, how did you find sundangrass? I'd terminate it and go a different direction. I'd think you would want a summer annuals plot - soybeans (ag or forage), cow pears, sunflowers - and a fall/ winter plants that get you to your summer annuals on the other side of the calendar. Fall planted rye, clover, peas, and maybe oats. Any of the brassicas. Perhaps spring seeded oats and clover as early as you can get on the ground. Frost seeding the clovers is an option.

 

[Bowman]

Thanks Yoderjac and Farmer Dan. I have been able to grow buckwheat, sometimes even overseeding as it gets hit hard for me and will continue. I want something growing all of the time, no bare ground. Will continue plant rye and clovers in the fall. Will add radishes to the mix. And probably try some annual clovers early.

Can't be for sure, but it may have started with this, when looking for building organic matter: http://covercrops.cals.cornell.edu/decision-tool.php

Here is some info.