Buck Shaming

[SwampCat]

I think as deer managing landowners, we often make the mistake of thinking everyone is in our same shoes. Within a mile of my property, there are numerous small acreage landowners - less than 20 acres, in addition to two different tracts of public hunting land. Almost all these landowners hunt and/or have family members who hunt. I know hunters who take a week of vacation and hunt the public land and do not even see a legal buck. They can't all shoot does, either, as we would soon run out of deer - our state proved that back in the early 2000's when our harvest dropped 33% over the course of three years because we were shooting too many does. To maintain your population and proper ratio's - someone has to shoot smaller bucks - there are not enough big bucks to go around, and if all you do is shoot your does, you will pay down the road - if you already have a balanced population.

Our state's overall harvest is fairly close to 50/50 bucks and does. Over the past ten years, our average has been a harvest of 200,000 deer, and we are right at a 50/50 buck doe harvest ratio. Some years, a few more bucks, some years - a few more does. The harvest in our state has probably been as stable as any deer harvest across the country. I think there is a different mindset between southern hunters and northern hunters. You don't see many areas in the south (maybe a few private areas with not many or no hunters) where there are deer densities of forty or fifty deer per square mile like you do in the north. A lot of Southerners hunt deer for food. When CWD first hit our state, Game Wardens were tasked with collecting road kill deer to be checked for CWD to determine how widespread the disease was. This was in late spring, early summer - hot down here in the south. I asked a local GW if he had been able to get a good many road kill samples for testing. His reply - "not many, these people here are hungry - when they hit a deer, they take it home and eat it."

Below is a harvest recommendation from a Wildlife Biologist who did a study for a hunting club in our state to better define what their harvest goals should be. This biologist provided an age for all 241 different bucks from their game camera surveys:

"estimated 241 bucks, 228 does and 108 fawns. This would give us a minimum estimated population on Hunting Club of 577 deer occupying deer habitat on Hunting Club or a density of 10.3 acres per deer minimum. I say minimum number because in calculating these numbers and using this technique all is based on the number of unique bucks observed. This survey method can reliably count 80-90 percent of the bucks on a property during the course of the survey period. With that in mind there could still be an estimated 10-20 percent higher deer numbers.
As you look through this year's survey report you will note an attempt on my part to estimate ages of all bucks photographed during the survey. Although I have classified these by age class in the report, you should not assume these age assignments are correct and know that these bucks could be a year older or younger, except the yearlings can't be younger, then their assigned age. It is more difficult to age a buck by a photo, more so especially in later summer, before their necks begin to develop in preparation for rut. That being said, I don't believe the assigned age structure is too different from the actual buck age structure for Hunting Club.
With the numbers presented I believe your target goal should be to harvest 50 does and 55 bucks for the 17-18 season. At this rate and all things being equal your deer numbers should
be close to the same next year. In regard to bucks I think we still need to be a bit conservative and harvest no more than one trophy per club member with less being better. That being said, I’d, personally, limit the number of 10 point plus bucks taken this season and focus on the culls and low end management bucks. These 55 bucks do not include button bucks… thus be careful when shooting does. In so far as buck recommendations go I normally don’t like to harvest a number of bucks that exceed half of the estimated mature buck cohort as this helps to ensure some older age bucks remain in the herd as they are critical to social and biological function within the herd. I’m hoping the focus of this is to remove bucks with suitable age but undesirable antler qualities."

It is a tough job, but someone has to shoot those "shameful" little bucks.

 

[Peplin Creek]

I understand what you’re saying but I have a guy that leases the ground directly on my west and south border. He’s a nice enough guy and is constantly talking about how he’s after a “big one”, but invariably shoots a small buck right before he has to go home. He says he’d rather shoot a small buck than no buck. Obviously it’s his choice; harvest what you want (legally), but it’s always frustrating to hear him talk about his goals of killing a “big” (over 150”) deer when he keeps shooting the young ones. If you truly want to kill a big one I feel like you have to willing to know that there will be years that you don’t kill any...maybe shoot some does for meat instead of a 2.5 year old 120” deer. It doesn’t bother me so much him shooting the small deer as it does listening to him. :)

Yeah absolutely, you have to be willing to eat a tag, if you trophy hunt and the constant dialog of wanting to shoot big deer and then pop off little bucks would annoy me too. Subtle Jabs in conversation would be hard to avoid.

 

[SwampCat]

I have a neighbor who owns 30 acres. Last year, they (he, buddy, kids, and grandkids) killed seven bucks - all legal - off that thirty acres. That is four more bucks than we killed off my 300 acres. Fortunately, they dont shoot does or there wouldnt be a deer left in the woods. A corn feeder and someone guarding it everyday of season can be an effective way to hunt - but it is hard on those of us who are trying to grow a mature deer. But, it is all legal, every last ounce of meat is eaten, and they have some good times doing it. Hard to fault them.

 

[Tree Spud]

That made me think of this old vid when a guy on a big Texas HF cull hunt shot a huge breeder buck.

Ouch ... I wonder how much that cost him?

 

[Troubles Trees]

This is more following the comments then the Buck Shaming post.
Our state (NY) simply throws the science out the window in situations like these and is more concerned about protecting the rich peoples fancy landscape trees, shrubs and flowers in Cayuga Heights rather than managing for healthy deer population. This area in all fairness used to hold alot of does, it is where I have hunted most of my life. It would be an average sit to see 7-10 does and fawns and typically a yearling buck or 2 in a morning or night watch. Last year was the 8th or 9th year they have done the DMFA and I see very few does now, even during bow season but on a positive note, the rut is INTENSE! Bucks move alot more to seek out less available does and I admit I see a lot more mature bucks since this happened. I am still against it, it brought so many new hunters to the area I have literally walked into my treestand in the dark and found someone in it I have found beer cans and cigarette butts at the bottom of my stands and these are posted lands that only I have permission to hunt.
Keep in mind ANYONE that buys a deer hunting license can get approved and print tags off their printers at home and can fill these tags from October 1st till the end of muzzle loader season (close to Christmas) plus almost 3 weeks more in January, after deer season is over.

Within the DMFA, registered big game hunters will be authorized to:

• take up to 2 antlerless deer per day using DMFA carcass tags during the general hunting seasons (regular season, and bow and muzzleloader seasons with appropriate special season privileges); and
• hunt antlerless deer only (limit 2 per day) during a DMFA season from the second Saturday in January through January 31 (January 11-31, 2020). During the DMFA season, a hunter may use any hunting implement that is lawful during any other deer season in that area.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/82382.html

 

[yoderjac]

We still see this "Cull bucks" and "Management Bucks" talked about. MSU has done some shown some clear research that shows there are no such things unless you are talking about high fenced operations. These words are often used as an excuse to shoot a small buck and "save face" in the context of buck shaming. "I shot it because it was a management buck." "We need to take those lesser buck genetics out of the gene pool."

These have been totally debunked at this point. https://deeruniversity.libsyn.com/e...-to-cull-the-purpose-makes-all-the-difference

 

[SwampCat]

Many of the folks I know that manage their bucks towards quality potential still use the terms “cull or management” bucks - not in the context that the deer is being killed to theoretically improve genetics - but more in the sense of “culling” the deer from the herd to reduce the overall population - in an effort to save the habitat for the remaining deer. It is true, at one time, that the terms cull and management were once widely associated with removal of deer as associated with improvement of genetics - but as that concept has largely been dispelled - many hunters I know now use the term to describe the selection of certain individuals to remove from the herd as in selective population reduction.

If your plan calls for removal of 55 bucks to keep the herd at a sustainable level, and one of your goals is the production of “quality” bucks, you wouldnt typically remove them indiscriminately. Thus, those bucks are still removed as part of the management process - as they are selectively removed for management purposes - and referred to as “management“ bucks. At least that is how many clubs refer to them in my neck of the woods.

 

[Bill]

I’m with SwampCat.
I wouldn’t call anything a cull buck in the traditional sense of the word. But I look at it like this at my place. The land will only hold so many mature bucks. To many = to much stress and someone’s leaving.

perfect example here. 5 years old. Decent enough deer but he’s not ever going to be magic. Neighbor wanted him gone last year. I let him walk at 15 yards just to see what this year brought. Not much change.

he’s old enough to run off a nice 12 point 3.5 year old that might be something someday.
Problem is I never want to burn a tag on one like this.
Hopefully he steps out during youth season....

 

[yoderjac]

Many of the folks I know that manage their bucks towards quality potential still use the terms “cull or management” bucks - not in the context that the deer is being killed to theoretically improve genetics - but more in the sense of “culling” the deer from the herd to reduce the overall population - in an effort to save the habitat for the remaining deer. It is true, at one time, that the terms cull and management were once widely associated with removal of deer as associated with improvement of genetics - but as that concept has largely been dispelled - many hunters I know now use the term to describe the selection of certain individuals to remove from the herd as in selective population reduction.

If your plan calls for removal of 55 bucks to keep the herd at a sustainable level, and one of your goals is the production of “quality” bucks, you wouldnt typically remove them indiscriminately. Thus, those bucks are still removed as part of the management process - as they are selectively removed for management purposes - and referred to as “management“ bucks. At least that is how many clubs refer to them in my neck of the woods.

Yep, there are still folks that try to manage based on beliefs rather than science. Harvesting a buck removes one deer for all time. Harvesting a doe removes many for the future. In exceptional critical situations with damaged habitat and heavy over-population, taking every deer may be necessary. In cases that bad, typically state agencies issue out of season kill permits. I some cases they will even authorize snipers to spotlight at night. Harvesting bucks does almost nothing for population control in a long-term management sense. It can be a short-term emergency technique to try to save endangered plants. From a population control perspective it doesn't matter which bucks are removed. Allowing hunters to shoot any buck will always end up removing fewer mature bucks.

Management plans are sometime intended to manage hunters, not deer. That is often the hardest aspect of management. I would presume a plan that calls for the the removal of an even number of antlered and antlerless deer is smart approach from the perspective of a biologist managing a hunt club. Removing the does is probably aimed at keeping the deer population in check in the long run. Removing the bucks is probably aimed at keeping the hunters happy and the club cooperating. Removing the bucks certainly does not hurt anything. Limiting the number of bucks removed is important.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

I’m with SwampCat.
I wouldn’t call anything a cull buck in the traditional sense of the word. But I look at it like this at my place. The land will only hold so many mature bucks. To many = to much stress and someone’s leaving.

perfect example here. 5 years old. Decent enough deer but he’s not ever going to be magic. Neighbor wanted him gone last year. I let him walk at 15 yards just to see what this year brought. Not much change.

he’s old enough to run off a nice 12 point 3.5 year old that might be something someday.
Problem is I never want to burn a tag on one like this.
Hopefully he steps out during youth season....
View attachment 30843

The social structure is much more complex. We tend to think we have much more control than we do by removing individual bucks. I understand the theory, but I've never seen any evidence that we have that much control. Personally I think it makes folks feel like they are doing something. I would contend that letting that buck walk or shooting him won't have an impact at all on your buck quality overall. However, I've seen no hard science on this, so my opinion is no better than yours.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[SwampCat]

Yep, there are still folks that try to manage based on beliefs rather than science. Harvesting a buck removes one deer for all time. Harvesting a doe removes many for the future. In exceptional critical situations with damaged habitat and heavy over-population, taking every deer may be necessary. In cases that bad, typically state agencies issue out of season kill permits. I some cases they will even authorize snipers to spotlight at night. Harvesting bucks does almost nothing for population control in a long-term management sense. It can be a short-term emergency technique to try to save endangered plants. From a population control perspective it doesn't matter which bucks are removed. Allowing hunters to shoot any buck will always end up removing fewer mature bucks.

Management plans are sometime intended to manage hunters, not deer. That is often the hardest aspect of management. I would presume a plan that calls for the the removal of an even number of antlered and antlerless deer is smart approach from the perspective of a biologist managing a hunt club. Removing the does is probably aimed at keeping the deer population in check in the long run. Removing the bucks is probably aimed at keeping the hunters happy and the club cooperating. Removing the bucks certainly does not hurt anything. Limiting the number of bucks removed is important.

Thanks,

Jack

As you indicated before - every area is different. In 2013, my camera surveys turned up four does and one fawn on my 300 acres. We were one of the problems. Our g&f sold the balanced herd approach - shoot the does to balance the herd. We did. Unbeknownst to us and many neighbors - doing so reduced reproduction so much that it could no longer keep up with hunter harvest. We stopped killing does. The state’s average fawn recruitment numbers is just below .5 per doe. In the past six years, my own property fawn recruitment numbers have been less than .1 in 2015 and .3 last year. The highest they have been is .62. With fawn recruitment numbers that low, you cant shoot your does as if they were rats like they do in some northern states. Where I live, as go your does, so go your bucks. Our zone bag limit for firearm and muzzleloader combined is two does. We can harvest two bucks. Bucks and does are born at approximately the same rate, why would you not harvest them at the same rate.

We like to eat deer meat. Besides My wife and I, my son and his buddy both hunt my place. We usually kill seven or eight deer a year Between us now - about half bucks and half does. We have been through the days when we shot seven or eight does - that is when we got down to four does on the 300 acres. Fortunately, common sense prevailed. Our average fall camera survey now shows about 25 does, 25-30 bucks, and ten or a dozen fawns. And we like it.

 

[SwampCat]

The social structure is much more complex. We tend to think we have much more control than we do by removing individual bucks. I understand the theory, but I've never seen any evidence that we have that much control. Personally I think it makes folks feel like they are doing something. I would contend that letting that buck walk or shooting him won't have an impact at all on your buck quality overall. However, I've seen no hard science on this, so my opinion is no better than yours.

Thanks,

Jack

I am not talking about shooting lesser bucks to improve quality. I am talking about reducing the herd to stay within carrying capacity - and shooting the number of bucks and the number of does needed to meet the carrying capacity goals. When removing bucks strictly to reduce the population to meet carrying capacity, we select deer That we believe do not have quality antler potential - not because we are afraid they are going to pass poor genetic material, but because we dont want to shoot a younger, quality buck - before he reaches his full potential.

Where I live, we are not over run with does - so we are very careful not to take too many. We want to take some deer for meat, and keep the population stable and the sex ratios stable. Working towards those goals - a 3.5 yr old forkhorn would be a prime candidate to remove from the herd - and selecting him would have nothing to do with trying to prevent him from passing his genes.

 

[H20fwler]

I say shoot whatever makes you happy and don't worry what anyone else is doing if you don't have control over it.
I've shot some nice bucks over the years and a bunch of small bucks, to me it all depends on the mood I'm in at the time, I don't get hung up on horns anymore.
It's nice to shoot a big one but I don't have to...really don't have to shoot anything, have still had my buck tag at end of season plenty of times. I like seeing my boys get nice deer. With the land management we do now the one thing we don't do much of anymore on our places is shoot does or fawns, we like seeing them and can shoot all we want somewhere else. I'm not in a crazy high deer density area but am in a big buck area, two booners have been shot within a half mile of our place in the last two years.

 

[roymunson]

As you indicated before - every area is different. In 2013, my camera surveys turned up four does and one fawn on my 300 acres. We were one of the problems. Our g&f sold the balanced herd approach - shoot the does to balance the herd. We did. Unbeknownst to us and many neighbors - doing so reduced reproduction so much that it could no longer keep up with hunter harvest. We stopped killing does. The state’s average fawn recruitment numbers is just below .5 per doe. In the past six years, my own property fawn recruitment numbers have been less than .1 in 2015 and .3 last year. The highest they have been is .62. With fawn recruitment numbers that low, you cant shoot your does as if they were rats like they do in some northern states. Where I live, as go your does, so go your bucks. Our zone bag limit for firearm and muzzleloader combined is two does. We can harvest two bucks. Bucks and does are born at approximately the same rate, why would you not harvest them at the same rate.

We like to eat deer meat. Besides My wife and I, my son and his buddy both hunt my place. We usually kill seven or eight deer a year Between us now - about half bucks and half does. We have been through the days when we shot seven or eight does - that is when we got down to four does on the 300 acres. Fortunately, common sense prevailed. Our average fall camera survey now shows about 25 does, 25-30 bucks, and ten or a dozen fawns. And we like it.

Glad you saw the err of your ways and were able to make changes to accomodate your farm. Its called being a good manager. I get frustrated with people who will fill all their tags because the DNR says they can. And for people who blame the DNR for lack of deer. I think in Ohio the DNR gives us the tools to manage our herd and we do so accordingly.

That said, 5 antlerless deer on 300 acres is incredibly foreign to me. We have a perfect storm of habitat and lack of hunting pressure around us, but I saw 20 deer in a 2 acre plot last year, my last sit in late January. Very few bucks.

We didn't get them all last year, but in the 2 years prior, we killed 45-50 deer (20-25 each year) off of 300 or so acres. And in no way did we hurt the population. But like you said, if we did, we'll ammend our approach and do what's best for the carrying capacity of the land.

We also used to be primarily old woods and got very few pictures of deer during the summer. Its a testiment to the chainsaw and habitat work thats been done over the last 5 years to make this a place they want to be.

 

[yoderjac]

I am not talking about shooting lesser bucks to improve quality. I am talking about reducing the herd to stay within carrying capacity - and shooting the number of bucks and the number of does needed to meet the carrying capacity goals. When removing bucks strictly to reduce the population to meet carrying capacity, we select deer That we believe do not have quality antler potential - not because we are afraid they are going to pass poor genetic material, but because we dont want to shoot a younger, quality buck - before he reaches his full potential.

Where I live, we are not over run with does - so we are very careful not to take too many. We want to take some deer for meat, and keep the population stable and the sex ratios stable. Working towards those goals - a 3.5 yr old forkhorn would be a prime candidate to remove from the herd - and selecting him would have nothing to do with trying to prevent him from passing his genes.

There is another thing that we haven't discussed in the equation: Management Area. When managing a small property (hundreds to thousands of acres), there are many factors beyond our control. I earlier mentioned immigration/emigration as one. We don't have a clear picture as to what is happening around us. We may have a general idea, but that is about it. On he other hand, we have a great deal of control over what happens on our management area. You have very little hard data to work with that is statistically significant.

When managing across a county, region, or state, things are different. You have large statistically significant data sets. You have fair control on limits with enforced regulations and tags, but little control on minimums. (Where this all relates to shaming). You can educate, inform, and try to change the culture, but that is slow and can take generations.

What happens when we over or under harvest deer from a large management area standpoint? Let's start with does. An underharvest of does results in population growth. That growth can quickly become exponential if underharvest is large and sustained. This can quickly threaten the BCC. An overharvest of does results in a population decline and if the overharvest is large and sustained, deer populations can crash. Now bucks. An over harvest of bucks typically results in an imbalance in age structure. Teenage bucks are easy to kill, and are especially vulnerable during dispersal. More mature bucks are more difficult to kill. Antler restrictions can help but only to a degree. An overharvest of bucks, unless extreme, has no long term impact on BCC or populations. An under harvest of bucks has no impact on populations or BCC unless it is extreme. Killing or letting bucks walk is not an effective tool for population control in an of itself. However, it can be part of a management strategy. Hunting is a tool for deer management at this level where at the small scale, deer management is often a tool for hunting. On the large scale, we are losing hunters through attrition faster than we are recruiting them. If we restrict buck harvest too much, we may lose hunter interest and atrite at an even faster rate. Hunting them becomes a less effective tool.

Relationships between buck and doe numbers tends to work itself out if you reach your population objective goals through doe harvest and don't over harvest bucks. I don't think, from the large management area perspective that we have seen an overabundance of bucks without an over abundance of does for very long. Perhaps this would not be a good thing if it did happen, but I have not seen it happen on the macro scale. It can certainly happen on the micro scale. I've see that with my involvement in suburban deer management. I've seen them bring in sharpshooters with spotlights taking out huge numbers of does in a short time. But on a micro level, those bucks just range further looking for does at the next rut. But as long as doe numbers are maintained at the right level on the small scale, bucks will adjust.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not at all against shooting bucks across balanced age classes at the small scale where you have that control. I'm saying it has a negligible impact on population control. As far as culling older bucks to keep them from pushing out higher antler potential younger bucks for smaller scale management as Bill suggests, I personally don't buy it, but with no science to rely on, that is just my opinion.

I will say this. If you want to enjoy shooting deer and want venison and have removed all the does that need to be removed to manage population, there is absolutely nothing wrong with shooting any buck you want.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[SwampCat]

Glad you saw the err of your ways and were able to make changes to accomodate your farm. Its called being a good manager. I get frustrated with people who will fill all their tags because the DNR says they can. And for people who blame the DNR for lack of deer. I think in Ohio the DNR gives us the tools to manage our herd and we do so accordingly.

That said, 5 antlerless deer on 300 acres is incredibly foreign to me. We have a perfect storm of habitat and lack of hunting pressure around us, but I saw 20 deer in a 2 acre plot last year, my last sit in late January. Very few bucks.

We didn't get them all last year, but in the 2 years prior, we killed 45-50 deer (20-25 each year) off of 300 or so acres. And in no way did we hurt the population. But like you said, if we did, we'll ammend our approach and do what's best for the carrying capacity of the land.

We also used to be primarily old woods and got very few pictures of deer during the summer. Its a testiment to the chainsaw and habitat work thats been done over the last 5 years to make this a place they want to be.

harvesting 20-25 deer from 300 acres is foreign to me. G&F estimate in our area - and across much of the state is a deer per 30 acres - 20 deer per square mile. Most places dont have 20 deer of any kind living on 300 acres. I just dont understand how it gets like that - especially with the antlerless bag limits many of the northern states offer. Do northern hunters not enjoy eating deer meat, or do they not like to kill deer but just enjoy the hunt? I have never hunted anywhere in the south in my fifty years of hunting where there were populations even remotely approaching that kind of density you speak of. I have hunted a number of places where you might hunt a week straight to see one or two deer. I know folks now who spend a week hunting public land near my place and dont see a deer. I know there are a few poorly managed clubs around that locally have fairly high densities - but those are the exception rather than the rule.

Somewhere around sixty deer is my preference to show up on my camera surveys - that is across 300 acres. I understand those deer come and go from my property. Any more than that, and I cant maintain plantings for ducks and doves. And contrary to what Jack says - we have very few bucks move onto the property after we remove some. Two bucks made an appearance last fall after the camera surveys - and so far neither of them is here this year - and they both made it through hunting season. I believe this to be a result of lower deer density outside of my property. If the density on nearby land is 20 deer per square mile - with approximately 5 bucks, 10 does, and 5 fawns - there is no where that the density is so high the bucks feel compelled to move. As a case in point - in the 20 years I have owned this place, we have only killed one buck that we did not have on game camera. The bachelor herds break up in early fall and about half those bucks will leave - but new bucks dont show up from outside areas.

In addition, I have read where our state is in the bottom five of whitetail states for fawn recruitment - with an average slightly under .5 per doe. I read where some of the northern states have fawn recruitment numbers of .8 to even 1 fawn per doe. I could see where that would make a big difference in deer densities, also. My fawn recruitment numbers last year was .3 per doe. 25 does producing seven or eight fawns limits how many deer you can harvest if you dont want your harvest to exceed production.

 

[roymunson]

In the midwest (I consider Ohio the midwest as we're in farm country) we have a high carrying capacity. Crop fields, we do a lot of cutting for browse on our farm, etc

We kill deer. But we're also a 1 buck state. So we don't whack the first doe that comes out because there's a chance the buck will follow later. So we let a lot of deer walk that we could shoot, in hopes that the right buck shows up. Often he doesn't. So a doe or 2 lives because we are holding out on the buck.

But we have a much higher capacity for holding deer than some places. And we're selective because we only get 1 buck to kill a year.

 

[roymunson]

In addition, I have read where our state is in the bottom five of whitetail states for fawn recruitment - with an average slightly under .5 per doe. I read where some of the northern states have fawn recruitment numbers of .8 to even 1 fawn per doe. I could see where that would make a big difference in deer densities, also. My fawn recruitment numbers last year was .3 per doe. 25 does producing seven or eight fawns limits how many deer you can harvest if you dont want your harvest to exceed production.

In our area, for sure early season, its the norm to see deer in multiples of 3s as its a doe with 2 fawns. I'm sure there's mortality etc, but a lone doe in the early season is an abnormality. I'm speaking anecdotally of my micro-universe of course. I know areas of Ohio that aren't nearly as high in density as we are. but in my little corner of the world, there are enough deer to manage and shoot without hurting our long term outlook.

 

[SwampCat]

In the midwest (I consider Ohio the midwest as we're in farm country) we have a high carrying capacity. Crop fields, we do a lot of cutting for browse on our farm, etc

We kill deer. But we're also a 1 buck state. So we don't whack the first doe that comes out because there's a chance the buck will follow later. So we let a lot of deer walk that we could shoot, in hopes that the right buck shows up. Often he doesn't. So a doe or 2 lives because we are holding out on the buck.

But we have a much higher capacity for holding deer than some places. And we're selective because we only get 1 buck to kill a year.

probably too, your seasons arent as long. We have four to six weeks firearm season, twelve days of muzzle loader season, and five months of bow season. With the longer seasons, a lot of hunters do what you do the first week or so - pass the does looking for a buck - and as season wears on and buck tags have been filled - they start on the does.

 

[roymunson]

probably too, your seasons arent as long. We have four to six weeks firearm season, twelve days of muzzle loader season, and five months of bow season. With the longer seasons, a lot of hunters do what you do the first week or so - pass the does looking for a buck - and as season wears on and buck tags have been filled - they start on the does.

Ohio has about 10-12 days of firearms (slug guns, straight wall rifles, and muzzle loader season) along with 4 months of bow season. The deer get plenty of pressure. And come January, they're incredibly skiddish. But with only 1 buck tag, I've let deer walk that woulda been killed had I been allowed another tag.