Beginner Questions

[RJAJr]

Looking for some general advice. I got excited about some new acerage to work on this spring. I planted about 2.5 acres of Whitetail Institute Fusion. I believe I did an good job other than I am learning it would have been wise to wait until fall and I should have done more work with Gly prior to planting.
I mowed, tilled, got a soil test, cultipacked followed the recommendations (no lime was needed) and so on. It has been dry here in Wisconsin We have gotten enough rain that the seed is germinated and beginning to grow. I seeded the last week of May ahead of a good rain. Weed competition is an issue but I have spot mowed once to keep the weeds from going to seed and I also intend to treat with a grass specific herbicide next week. It has good potential but I am fighting a fight I could have avoided had I fall planted, live and learn. Since Fusion has Chicory I am not really wanting to apply a broad leaf herbicide at this time unless I begin to totally lose the weed battle and I need to sacrifice the Chicory to control the weeds.

So here is my plan and I am looking for any advice.
Application of Whitetail Institute Arrest Max to control grasses very early July.
Mow any weeds as they appear throughout the summer to avoid as much seeding of weeds as I can, my biggest concern is some areas of Canada Thistle which I have mowed down.
Over seed the entire plot with a a cover crop of Winter Rye in Mid August
Frost Seed White Tail Institute Fusion into any bare spots in late winter early spring
Cut down Winter Rye cover crop in late spring 24

Does this seem reasonable? I appreciate any feedback.

 

[jsasker007]

For now if the weeds aren't smothering your plot I wouldn't worry too much about weeds. Rye broadcast in the fall is a great idea and next spring the rye will help your battle with weeds and make your ground easier to work if you need to. When your rye gets planted you could throw in some clover that will be back in the spring as soon as things start growing again your clover and rye will be the first thing growing. Plotting can be fairly simple with minimal work or a never ending process depending on how "crazy" you want to get with it. Throwing out some radishes or turnips could be done now and add to what's growing for this fall. Radish is great for busting up soils and has a deep root. Turnips usually don't get touched until after a frost or two but radish seems to get eaten as soon as it starts growing. ENJOY

 

[Troubles Trees]

Not sure what area you are in or what kind of soil you have so that would help get more accurate answers.

It sounds like you have a good start on it, maybe should have waited after spraying to spray again prior to planting but not a biggie. I hate to answer a question with a question but it makes a difference, do you feel like you are attracting/feeding deer as well as you had anticipated?

Some areas can just grow clover and overseed with Winter Rye every year and the deer keep it mowed down. My WR goes to seed and never gets touched (they do eat the clover) so I use it for OM and soil conditioning in the spring, then mow it down in late July and plant Brassicas (I add Chicory and a few other things) on August 1st and overseed with WR early September for spring greenup. It is just an easy/lazy way for me to do foodplots.

If what you are doing is feeding/attracting deer then you reached your goal. Personally I don't stress on getting a picture perfect farmers field, I have weeds and don't sweat it too much as long as there is enough food for them during winter.

 

[Bill]

So here is my plan and I am looking for any advice.
Application of Whitetail Institute Arrest Max to control grasses very early July.

You could do that and pay $160 for 4 acre’s worth of spray or use clethodim and get the same 4 acres sprayed for $75.

https://www.keystonepestsolutions.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=28_31&products_id=521

Arrest is Clethodim if you read the active ingredient it’s label. That buck on the label is why it costs more.

 

[RJAJr]

Not sure what area you are in or what kind of soil you have so that would help get more accurate answers.

It sounds like you have a good start on it, maybe should have waited after spraying to spray again prior to planting but not a biggie. I hate to answer a question with a question but it makes a difference, do you feel like you are attracting/feeding deer as well as you had anticipated?

Some areas can just grow clover and overseed with Winter Rye every year and the deer keep it mowed down. My WR goes to seed and never gets touched (they do eat the clover) so I use it for OM and soil conditioning in the spring, then mow it down in late July and plant Brassicas (I add Chicory and a few other things) on August 1st and overseed with WR early September for spring greenup. It is just an easy/lazy way for me to do foodplots.

If what you are doing is feeding/attracting deer then you reached your goal. Personally I don't stress on getting a picture perfect farmers field, I have weeds and don't sweat it too much as long as there is enough food for them during winter.

Valid questions, the clover is just starting, my hope is it becomes attractive to the local herd but I am not there yet. It needs to get established and to a point where it attracts deer. I seeded 3-4 weeks ago and the first week we were supposed to get rain that did not happen. Finally we got some and it germinated and we went almost two weeks without more rain finally getting more yesterday, with a bit more in the forecast later this week. I walked it today and it is looking pretty good, really good in spots and thin in others which is to be expected I guess. I am not sure the deer will mow down 2.5 acres, that would be ideal but I have the equipment and it is close by so I can stay on top of it pretty well.

I hear you, there is a good bit of Milkweed in the plot and I am not worried about that really, I am just worried about the thistle as I know that can be prolific if not contained. My hope is mowing and a cover crop of Rye help me smother some of the weeds out. I expect the clover about a year from now to be doing well established and hopefully out competing weeds on it's own.

Good to hear folks overseed winter rye into clover, I feel like it could act as a food source and cover/smother crop but as I said I am a beginner and I wanted to make sure I was not missing something. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[RJAJr]

You could do that and pay $160 for 4 acre’s worth of spray or use clethodim and get the same 4 acres sprayed for $75.

https://www.keystonepestsolutions.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=28_31&products_id=521

Arrest is Clethodim if you read the active ingredient it’s label. That buck on the label is why it costs more.

I had thought about this but I need to get a bit more educated on mixing my own, ratios and what not. I have a boom sprayer and I have it calibrated at this point to spray 20 gallons per acre at about 4-5 mph. This matches up with the application rate of the Max Arrest. I have no doubt I over paid, but looking over what was available at Fleet Farm locally I only saw Gly in different concentrations and 2,4-D and 2,4-DB I know the DB is safe for the clover but I believe would kill the chicory. I am just not confident enough yet to try and mix my own, hopefully I can get there as I become more educated. I did not see any Clethodim available, I could likely find another source but I went the easy route this time. Thanks for the advice and the link.

 

[RJAJr]

For now if the weeds aren't smothering your plot I wouldn't worry too much about weeds. Rye broadcast in the fall is a great idea and next spring the rye will help your battle with weeds and make your ground easier to work if you need to. When your rye gets planted you could throw in some clover that will be back in the spring as soon as things start growing again your clover and rye will be the first thing growing. Plotting can be fairly simple with minimal work or a never ending process depending on how "crazy" you want to get with it. Throwing out some radishes or turnips could be done now and add to what's growing for this fall. Radish is great for busting up soils and has a deep root. Turnips usually don't get touched until after a frost or two but radish seems to get eaten as soon as it starts growing. ENJOY

This is good advice, I may look into brodcasting Radish in to the plot. I have a nice local co-op where I have been looking at buying seed from moving forward rather then buying the name brand stuff. I could pick some up and mix it in with the rye or broadcast separately.
I am working on another fall plot now in the woods and was planning on doing a Brassica mix in that plot. I have sprayed it twice now with gly and my soil test is back. Will fertilize as recommended and till soon, then one more application of gly just before I drag and seed. I think I have a good plan for this one. It was heavy canary grass and god knows what else in June when I first mowed it down. Thanks!

 

[Bill]

I had thought about this but I need to get a bit more educated on mixing my own, ratios and what not. I have a boom sprayer and I have it calibrated at this point to spray 20 gallons per acre at about 4-5 mph. This matches up with the application rate of the Max Arrest. I have no doubt I over paid, but looking over what was available at Fleet Farm locally I only saw Gly in different concentrations and 2,4-D and 2,4-DB I know the DB is safe for the clover but I believe would kill the chicory. I am just not confident enough yet to try and mix my own, hopefully I can get there as I become more educated. I did not see any Clethodim available, I could likely find another source but I went the easy route this time. Thanks for the advice and the link.

Basically you mix it the same. 32 oz per acre so you would add 32 oz to your 20 gallons. Not sure if arrest calls for a surfactant. Clethodim does but I’ve found it burns my clover a bit. It’s a sticking agent, I use a couple squirts of dawn dish detergent and it does the same thing. Only downside is it can make foam when you clean your sprayer.

Yes the 2’4-DB will kill your chicory good catch there.

 

[RJAJr]

Here are some photos, fist tillage passes and then after multiple till passes as well as multiple cultipack passes. My mistake was not using gly prior to tilling. Live and learn.

 

[356]

First, welcome to the forum. There is a wealth of information on this forum, and your question will help others consider their own "what if" scenarios.

Your plot looks as good as my first attempt ten years ago. The highlight of that year was harvesting a buck coming into the plot. Like you, I planted too early, and it was a drought year. However, the plot and mock scape helped modify deer movement, and the season was a success.

My first thought is that the plot will come alive once you get some rain. Many weeds will be going dormant, which means some herbicide treatments will be less effective. I would consider spot treating trouble weeds, and see how things look August 1st. You can always overseed before a rain or start over if needed.

 

[RJAJr]

First, welcome to the forum. There is a wealth of information on this forum, and your question will help others consider their own "what if" scenarios.

Your plot looks as good as my first attempt ten years ago. The highlight of that year was harvesting a buck coming into the plot. Like you, I planted too early, and it was a drought year. However, the plot and mock scape helped modify deer movement, and the season was a success.

My first thought is that the plot will come alive once you get some rain. Many weeds will be going dormant, which means some herbicide treatments will be less effective. I would consider spot treating trouble weeds, and see how things look August 1st. You can always overseed before a rain or start over if needed.

This is good advice and something I have thought about. I have read about spot treating with gly but that makes very little sense to me, wouldn't one rather spot treat with 2,4-DB? I would lose a bit of chicory but I could live with that. The good thing is the thistle is in patches and not all over the plot so this is a viable idea.

If I had one piece of beginner advice I would say my expectation was that tillage would kill 90% of the grass and weeds. I would now put that in the 60-70% range. This is true even though I spent a lot of time tilling with access to qualit equipment and a fairly easy plot to access. This is in the memory bank going forward. The boom sprayer I purchased second hand off of a golf course and it needed quite a bit of work over the spring to get it calibrated and working properly.

I am off to find info on mock scrapes on the forum now. :) Much appreciated!

 

[Troubles Trees]

I am off to find info on mock scrapes on the forum now. :)

Many on here use rope for the licking branch with great success :)

 

[PatinPA]

Here are some photos, fist tillage passes and then after multiple till passes as well as multiple cultipack passes. My mistake was not using gly prior to tilling. Live and learn.
View attachment 53929View attachment 53927View attachment 53928

I made the same mistake with my first plot. Came back up almost all grass. We've all made plenty of mistakes. It's definitely a learning process. Lots of knowledge here with various soil types from all over the country. I turned the yard of my camp into a plot. That's where I ran into similar problems as yours. I also made the mistake of tilling it in a very wet spring. Just ended up a muddy mess. I ended up digging ditches through it to drain some of the water out. Could barely tell anything was growing other than grass.

Now that I'm a seasoned veteran I think I only had two plot failures last year. haha. Just remember this key item. Winter rye is your friend and will save almost any plot.

 

[RJAJr]

Here is where the plot is presently at, there is another area with less grass but this gives you a general idea. The close up gives you an idea of how the clover is doing and the overall shows the grass and weed competition. I will be spraying for the grass this week or weekend which I think will help.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Kill the grasses and just mow the broad leaves. I wold NEVER sacrifice chicory just to kill other weeds.

 

[RJAJr]

Kill the grasses and just mow the broad leaves. I wold NEVER sacrifice chicory just to kill other weeds.

Noted, and I tend to agree in regards to the chicory, I am trying not to stress to much on the weeds. I sprayed the grass last evening and the application went well. The sprayer calibration resulted in almost exactly the specified amount of solution per acre. I will now let the plot go until it is ready for a mowing here in the next month or so. Then I will overseed with CR and maybe mix in a few Turnips for fun in mid August. That I hope gets me through until the CR is ready to be mowed down next spring. Thanks for the advice all. I will update this thread as to how it all works over the months ahead.
I will say this, the Fusion blend I purchased from Whitetail institute has impressed me with it's germination rate in somewhat droughty conditions here this spring and summer. The clover and chicory have a ways to go but I hand seeded almost 3 acres and it germinated almost everywhere. Some more regular rain I think will be key to how successful this planting is, fingers crossed.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I was expecting @omicron1792 to pop in and mention Imox for an herbicide on this one.

 

[omicron1792]

I was expecting @omicron1792 to pop in and mention Imox for an herbicide on this one.

That’s my boy. Depends on what the grass is!

 

[RJAJr]

That’s my boy. Depends on what the grass is!

It's a lot of canary grass I believe, there is some foxtail at the area down near the pond. Some grasses my plant identifier is calling wheat which I am not sure is correct, it may must be younger canary grass. I have looked at Imox or Octivio since Bill steered me to the Keystone website. Thinking about giving it a go in the spring but I need to learn more about the herbicide game.

 

[omicron1792]

I would still recommend spraying multiple times with gly and 24d this summer, then plant heavy rye and clover in fall. Then could use cleth/imox in spring. Harder to use up north with how early y’all plant fall crops but doable with clover and rye. Harder with brassicas.