Bean failure - curious your take

[BuckSutherland]

Here is exactly what I think happened.

1. They were planted later than you would have liked. As a rule of them the best beans are planted early.
2. You didnt innoculate them and after 17 years of CRP there is no way you have the correct bacteria in the soil for the beans to nodulate. This is why I suggest you dig. If you dont find nodules/ or very few on the beans you will have part of the answer.

https://www.aganytime.com/Soybeans/...Nitrogen-Fixation&fields=article&article=1273


3. If its as dry as you say at planting then you surely could have lost some stand to poor emergence. Perhaps beans were planted into dry dirt and struggled to find moisture to germinate
4. In an old CRP environment I would expect slugs. As Mortensen said earlier, thistle catipillars were also raising hell earlier this year so both of them could have thinned your stand down considerably.
5. Weed competition will choke them considerably as well.
6. PH might be a little low and that would hurt nodulation as well.


Good news is that it is all easily fixable. A little lime, timely planting and spraying (i'm sure you were stymied by wet conditions this spring like most), and innoculate your beans. The only one that really takes time is the lime.

 

[Mortenson]

I went to spread my brassicas between the 30" bean rows today (planted July 8th). The bad news is the brassicas may never see the light of day. The good (and surprising) news is we might have enough beans to feed every deer in the county this winter. Buck brings up good points and he raises great crops, but his #1 and #2 in the prior post didn't happen to apply to my situation this time. Call it luck. These beans are outgrowing our commercial fields dang near, and they were planted close to a month later. Pics will show they'll canopy in a week or so, and that they are flowering quite well right now (need a normal to late frost to make beans), and that the roots have decent amounts of nodules on them, despite this field being continuous corn for over 30 years and having no inoculant applied to the seed. Is that kind of a soft rule? I need to look into it.

 

[Mortenson]

My beans are in stage R2. According to U of MN they need 70 days on average to reach maturity. A mid Sept frost would junk them. If it can hold off til the full moon in mid Oct they should make it.

 

[Dukslayr]

Finally got a chance after my dove hunt to look the bean fields over again. My farmer sprayed them again last Friday and then no tilled a mix of wheat/rye, frosty berseem, daikon radishes, crimson clover and groundhog radishes into what’s remaining of the beans.

Couple thoughts. I believe my problem was/is deer and not caterpillars or fungus. There are tons and tons of plants but they all display browse pressure. I was, however, surprised to see that many plants actually set pods that appear to have beans in them. Obviously no where near what they should be, but it surprised me nonetheless. Pictures below.

The roots also seem to have nodes, so I guess they are fixing nitrogen and weren’t missing innoculant? Do these look normal?

I planted Real World Beans and Eagle Forage. I gotta say, the RW seeds substantially outperformed the Eagle beans. The Real World had many more plants that grew past 12” and set pods versus the Eagle beans...and handled the pressure. I have no idea how standard Ag beans would have performed since I didnt plant them this year. Next year my farmer is planting one field in corn and one in beans...whatever he is planting firm himself. We will see what happens.

Any additional thoughts or insights on the pictures below appreciated. Thanks guys.

 

[Mortenson]

I'm not an agronomist but I don't see anything alarming in those pics. That is pretty cool that they still are toughing it out and trying to reproduce. They kept making new trifoliates. Beans are a remarkable plant in a lot of ways. I still wonder if it's just a case of what Bill said before, the early competition that they didn't like, and then they just got overwhelmed by the deer. I've observed in production ag that no-till beans often play catch-up to their conventionally tilled brothers during much of the growing season, but that they can still yield or at least bottom line as well. But placed into a plotter's situation, and with a healthy deer herd, they can just never get a foothold. I'm not saying that tillage would always help, just that I've seen no-till beans look like they're behind in the early stages. That's why it's so hard to grow beans around the timber in general. Early browsing on young corn and it can keep growing. On beans, if a deer bites off a small bean plant, it's done. They gotta get some size on them to withstand browse. I'll be watching to see how they finish and what the field looks like next year! Good luck.

 

[FarmerDan]

I went to the top of the thread and looked at your original pictures. You had plants, but not enough. I assume all those bare spots didn't suddenly spring to life?
I don't see anything wrong with the plants in your new pictures. They are just short, and as you said, they were browsed heavily? It's hard to diagnose. All I can offer is something you already know - get out in front of the game next year. While you're waiting do some soil samples.

 

[Dukslayr]

I'm not an agronomist but I don't see anything alarming in those pics. That is pretty cool that they still are toughing it out and trying to reproduce. They kept making new trifoliates. Beans are a remarkable plant in a lot of ways. I still wonder if it's just a case of what Bill said before, the early competition that they didn't like, and then they just got overwhelmed by the deer. I've observed in production ag that no-till beans often play catch-up to their conventionally tilled brothers during much of the growing season, but that they can still yield or at least bottom line as well. But placed into a plotter's situation, and with a healthy deer herd, they can just never get a foothold. I'm not saying that tillage would always help, just that I've seen no-till beans look like they're behind in the early stages. That's why it's so hard to grow beans around the timber in general. Early browsing on young corn and it can keep growing. On beans, if a deer bites off a small bean plant, it's done. They gotta get some size on them to withstand browse. I'll be watching to see how they finish and what the field looks like next year! Good luck.

So next year everything planted will be planted with his convention planter that’s setup for no till. So I guess they’ll still be chasing but they’ll be planted on 30” rows instead of drilled. I will keep posting.

 

[Dukslayr]

I went to the top of the thread and looked at your original pictures. You had plants, but not enough. I assume all those bare spots didn't suddenly spring to life?
I don't see anything wrong with the plants in your new pictures. They are just short, and as you said, they were browsed heavily? It's hard to diagnose. All I can offer is something you already know - get out in front of the game next year. While you're waiting do some soil samples.

Dan -
The bare spots never filled in. I can’t remember who asked about the equipment in previous posts, but there could have been a problem with the drill used to plant. I saw plenty of seed on the top of the soil post planting. The drill was the NRCS drill. We just used another one of their drills to plant the cover crop and it clearly had a couple bearings that were out when it was picked up...they weren’t concerned (the NRCS that is). In fact we spent 45 minutes cleaning out the molding soybeans from the drill when we got it to the farm.
The plants were most certainly browsed heavily. It will be done “the right way” next year with the farmers equipment (even though it’s the same farmer that planted this year using NRCS equipment).

 

[SWIFFY]

Good to see. Its all a learning experience. Ive had a few times now I thought my beans were a loss, and then by the end of the summer, even if theyre short, they explode with pods. Im always happier in the end.

 

[FarmerDan]

I think ya' done really good for the challenges you had in front of you!
1. A field that had been in CRP for 17years. Think about trying to punch thru that stuff!
2. A borrowed, rental, no-till drill
3. No clear idea of the soil pH and fertility
4. June 6th isn't that late, but since you brought it up (:>)...
5. Six weeks of limited rain post-planting.
6. No innoculant.
I'm smiling and I hope you are too?!

Did that drill belong to NRCS or the local Soil & Water Conservation District? I'll defend one of them. SWCD hardly has enough (experienced) help to keep the lights on.
That's just a lead-in to planters. When something goes wrong, we hardly ever suspect the planter....but it often is the source of the problem. So, be it!

Really, my friend, job well done!

 

[Bill]

The beans were drilled at 50# per acre

I missed that statement.

FarmerDan got me looking at the original pics he has some good points. and Mortenson mentioned it earlier. Population looks low. Especially for a drill planting ?? Is it 9” rows on a 10NT? I can’t see a consistent row in your beans. I think deer and low seed count played a hand in it also. I plant 75lbs acre. That might be a high count but they always do OK and manage to get past some of the browse pressure.

 

[Bill]

A field that had been in CRP for 17years. Think about trying to punch thru that stuff!

And that makes a lot of sense to me. My neighbor drilled into old pasture last spring. Beans didn’t do much. This year their 3 foot tall.

 

[FarmerDan]

I missed that statement.

FarmerDan got me looking at the original pics he has some good points. and Mortenson mentioned it earlier. Population looks low. Especially for a drill planting ?? Is it 9” rows on a 10NT? I can’t see a consistent row in your beans. I think deer and low seed count played a hand in it also. I plant 75 lbs acre. That might be a high count but they always do OK and manage to get past some of the browse pressure.

I'm always torn about how far to go with the minutia when talking about food plots. Just call me Rip.

I really think we probably have to be moving away from talking about seeding "pounds-of-soybeans and get more focused on seed size - or seeds "per unit."
The point is, the number of soybean seeds can vary wildly from season-to-season and even from lot-to-lot within a season.

Take duks... example. Maybe the seeds were big and had a hard time getting thru the seed box. That, coupled with the number of possible plants from a pound of large size seed can make for a problem. I'm not saying that happened, but it is a possibility.

Let's suppose you are shooting for a plant population of 140,000 per acre.
If your seed size is small and there are 3600 per pound you only need 39 lbs assuming 100% germination.
If your seed size is medium, 2400 per pound, you will need 58 lbs.
And, if you're lucky enough to get BIG soybean seeds where there are only 1900 per pound, you will need 75 lbs to get to your ideal.

Rip-Torn, over and out.

 

[Dukslayr]

All good points Dan and Bill. As such, next year I want the farmer to do everything on my property that he does on his so we can control for some of the variables you discuss. If the same seed is going into similar soil (similar, not exactly the same) at the same rate, timing, etc then the variables get reduced substantially. So my plan for next year is to do the 5 acre field in beans and the 4 acre field in corn; all planted by the farmer using his seed and equipment at the same time he’s doing his beans/corn. I’m curious to see the results next year!

 

[Mortenson]

Yes all good points about the seed, Dan. And the been seed that was grown last year (planted this year) was generally known to be larger sized seed and having poor germ. I heard of a lot of 70-80% germ rates. If the seeds were in the 2,000's for count/lb and they drilled at 50/ac, it would look like not enough plants, especially early in the game. Many guys who drill shoot for north of 200,000 seeds/ac. In a timber setting I'd go higher even. Gotta find a way to overwhelm the deer. People like experimenting with how low they can go on bean populations. Lots of trials show evenly spaced stands well under 100K can yield higher than say 150K. They just branch more. I wouldn't be trying that in a plot situation though. I definitely like narrow rows for deer beans. They like to stand at a row and eat straight down the row when the beans are small. Might eat every bean for 10 or 15 straight feet. On 30's that can make some pretty big gaps. Or just assume the edges at least will be hammered and gone. If you're pretty tight with the farmer maybe you can ask him to plant your 30's and then go over it again making them 15's? Just get some more plants out there! Beans grow really slow in the early days.

 

[Dukslayr]

Yes all good points about the seed, Dan. And the been seed that was grown last year (planted this year) was generally known to be larger sized seed and having poor germ. I heard of a lot of 70-80% germ rates. If the seeds were in the 2,000's for count/lb and they drilled at 50/ac, it would look like not enough plants, especially early in the game. Many guys who drill shoot for north of 200,000 seeds/ac. In a timber setting I'd go higher even. Gotta find a way to overwhelm the deer. People like experimenting with how low they can go on bean populations. Lots of trials show evenly spaced stands well under 100K can yield higher than say 150K. They just branch more. I wouldn't be trying that in a plot situation though. I definitely like narrow rows for deer beans. They like to stand at a row and eat straight down the row when the beans are small. Might eat every bean for 10 or 15 straight feet. On 30's that can make some pretty big gaps. Or just assume the edges at least will be hammered and gone. If you're pretty tight with the farmer maybe you can ask him to plant your 30's and then go over it again making them 15's? Just get some more plants out there! Beans grow really slow in the early days.

He and I are forging a good relationship and I think he’ll do anything I request (within reason). I think I could definitely get him to run the plot twice. Maybe I should make the passes perpendicular to each other instead of horizontal. If the deer like to feed down the rows maybe that’ll confuse them out of the plot! :)

 

[Bill]

Let's suppose you are shooting for a plant population of 140,000 per acre.
If your seed size is small and there are 3600 per pound you only need 39 lbs assuming 100% germination.
If your seed size is medium, 2400 per pound, you will need 58 lbs.
And, if you're lucky enough to get BIG soybean seeds where there are only 1900 per pound, you will need 75 lbs to get to your ideal.

Good point. Haven’t planted them in a long time but when I did, eagle beans were smaller than the ag beans I used that year. And I had to adjust the seed cup setting to medium because I felt like when it was on large lots of bean seeds were getting cracked and going in the ground split apart.

 

[Dukslayr]

I missed that statement.

FarmerDan got me looking at the original pics he has some good points. and Mortenson mentioned it earlier. Population looks low. Especially for a drill planting ?? Is it 9” rows on a 10NT? I can’t see a consistent row in your beans. I think deer and low seed count played a hand in it also. I plant 75lbs acre. That might be a high count but they always do OK and manage to get past some of the browse pressure.

It was a 10’ Great Plains pull behind not-till drill. I thought they were set on 7.5” rows but honestly don’t know. There was plenty of seed on top of the ground so the drill may not have been in optimal shape. We just used their Hay Buster drill and it was clearly in disrepair (shot bearings, plugged tubes, hoppers full of molding seed, etc). I don’t think they maintain their equipment real well. Hopefully we can use my farmers equipment next year and we won’t need to worry about that.

 

[swat1018]

Maybe I missed it, how many acres is the field? Real World Beans are no magic bullet, they ARE Ag beans that are selected for shatter resistance. Shatter resistance is an important trait that means the pods will hold the beans well into the winter vs. splitting open and dropping the bean on the ground. I'm guessing the deer are your main problem. I plant a 5 acre field in a field surrounded by timber, the deer like it there. I have never had a bean crop in there, and I never will until I put up an E fence (next year). I've put up exclusion cages, and it shows how hard the deer hurt them. I do like you did every year, let the beans feed them in the summer, then drill grains through them Labor Day weekend.

 

[Dukslayr]

Maybe I missed it, how many acres is the field? Real World Beans are no magic bullet, they ARE Ag beans that are selected for shatter resistance. Shatter resistance is an important trait that means the pods will hold the beans well into the winter vs. splitting open and dropping the bean on the ground. I'm guessing the deer are your main problem. I plant a 5 acre field in a field surrounded by timber, the deer like it there. I have never had a bean crop in there, and I never will until I put up an E fence (next year). I've put up exclusion cages, and it shows how hard the deer hurt them. I do like you did every year, let the beans feed them in the summer, then drill grains through them Labor Day weekend.

One field is 5 acres (where the RW beans were) and one field was 4 acres (Eagle beans). I hear you about the RW beans...my point was more that I was surprised how much better the RW beans did versus the Eagle beans. Both fields are about 200-300 yards apart and I’ve got hundreds of acres of Ag just south of me across the county line. Much the same as you, though, my fields are secluded, tucked back back ridges in the timber. I’m sure they love my fields versus the wide open ag fields around me.