Balsam Fir - direct seeding?

[John-W-WI]

Seeing as Balsam Fir are pretty shade tolerant, has anyone ever tried direct seeding some in a stand of hardwoods?

Any ideas on seed sources?

I found some seeds online, but they were $6 for 40 seeds. If I were to give it a try I would want to plant LOTS of seeds, on the order of 100's or even 1000's. As it would be a numbers game, plant LOTS hope a few make it.

-John

 

[chickenlittle]

Sheffields has seed by the ounce for $30. Looks to be like 4000-5000 seeds. I would only try starting from seed if I had a prepared area for it. For planting in the woods, I'd get seedlings or plugs instead.

 

[West Branch]

Here is a link to Sheffields
https://www.sheffields.com/seeds-for-sale/Abies/balsamea/////Wisconsin//5465/Balsam-Fir/Balsam-Fir

What kind of growing setup do you have? I would think that buying seed and growing them in styroblock plug trays might be the way to go. I have a couple plug trays I saved from prior purchases and I am going to try growing some dolgo seeds in them this year. A bit more time and $, but I think the return should far out weigh throwing out seeds. But once you get to that point, might as well just buy 500+ plugs from someone already growing them.

 

[John-W-WI]

I was asking more along the lines of "throw and grow" (and lots of hope).

Maybe I should consider plugs instead.

Itasca is out of Fir's.... Isn't there another plug nursery people here frequent?

-John

 

[bueller]

ncrtrees.com

 

[John-W-WI]

Perfect. Thank you.

 

[James P. Bipps]

Our county conservation district has an annual tree sale that sells plugs....if you have one, check it out. I discovered Itasca before our conservation district offered plugs, so I've used Itasca exclusively.

 

[ruskbucks]

I would try the seeds. Balsams are supposed to regrow from seeds very easily.(I am a witness to this). Once the trees are 30 years old they start to produce seed, the seeds are carried by the wind and dispersed up to 200 feet away from the mother tree. Scarifying the soil is supposed to help, but not necessary.

 

[sandbur]

I would try the seeds. Balsams are supposed to regrow from seeds very easily.(I am a witness to this). Once the trees are 30 years old they start to produce seed, the seeds are carried by the wind and dispersed up to 200 feet away from the mother tree. Scarifying the soil is supposed to help, but not necessary.

Do you think pH or any other factors are involved in the young trees surviving?

I have always wondered why trees naturally in one location and not in a different location that appears to be similar. Can young balsam tolerate much heat? Could that be the limiting factor?

 

[ruskbucks]

I don't think ph has much of a factor, my food plot soil came in at 5.0. I would think it would be even lower in the woods. I'm not sure on the heat, I was going to say that they might do so good in the shade because its cooler,but I have a few growing in the wide open and they are beautiful looking trees. The ones in the open are full of branches all the way to the ground. I think they look just as nice as a blue or white spruce. I would think the way the seed are dispersed is the key to regrowth. The west side of my land is mostly hardwoods with a few balsams here and there,as you go to the east toward the road the balsams are so thick you cant walk thru them and the hardwoods are scattered and are only the larger ones well above the balsams canopy. The 40 acres across the road of mine is almost all balsams with only a few older hardwoods. This would make sense with the prevailing west winds spreading seed. These are a couple I transplanted 7years ago when they were about 18' tall. They are about 10-12 feet now.

 

[Steve Oehlenschlager]

I got the opposite problem with balsams. I want mine cut down. They are too thick and a desert underneath. They soak up all the sun. Don't plant them too thick!

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I don't know what this will tell you guys - if anything - but up in Maine, they sprout like weeds in woods that are mostly all evergreens. They can look like a carpet in places and the canopy is a variety of spruce, hemlock, white pine and balsam fir. Not much sun - if any - gets to the ground. Needles, needle-duff, sphagnum moss, and green moss everywhere, yet they sprout like a dream. Soil, or soil / duff HAS to be acidic. I've seen them grow in sunny areas too up in Maine, but in the dark evergreens around swamps, they're all over.

 

[John-W-WI]

I got the opposite problem with balsams. I want mine cut down. They are too thick and a desert underneath. They soak up all the sun. Don't plant them too thick!

Fine Steve, I'll let you bring about 200 of them to my farm and plant them! :)

-John

 

[sandbur]

I find balsam naturally growing on acidic soil. I also have some land towards there southern end of the range and they seem to do best on eastern slopes, in wetlands of a certain type,and in little pockets that are somewhat protected from the southwest. This makes me think there is some limiting environmental factor on seeds sprouting in other areas.

short answer, John plant plugs!

 

[Steve Oehlenschlager]

White spruce would probably be a nicer alternative than balsams. But I don't think they can handle the wetter areas. I might plant some of them after my next cut.

 

[Shedder]

I got the opposite problem with balsams. I want mine cut down. They are too thick and a desert underneath. They soak up all the sun. Don't plant them too thick!

2x

It amuses me that everyone wants what they don't have. I have seen the same thing with guys that want to grow alders. They haven't tried to get through many alders.

Around here balsams get in the way of my oak planting. They make thickets you can't fall down in. Deer use them but likely would prefer something else.

 

[John-W-WI]

White spruce would probably be a nicer alternative than balsams. But I don't think they can handle the wetter areas. I might plant some of them after my next cut.

I _believe_ balsams are more shade tolerant aren't they? That's what got me interested in them to begin with. I have planted quite a few Norway and White spruce. I'm looking for something to add to hardwood stands.

Thanks,

-John

 

[Shedder]

I _believe_ balsams are more shade tolerant aren't they? That's what got me interested in them to begin with.

True. Red spruce is also shade tolerant but may not grow there.

Also if you are in WI I would think a fir seed source is in the north of the state or close by.

 

[ruskbucks]

I _believe_ balsams are more shade tolerant aren't they? That's what got me interested in them to begin with. I have planted quite a few Norway and White spruce. I'm looking for something to add to hardwood stands.

Thanks,

-John

I think that they are a great choice for planting in your hardwoods. They can grow for a long time with only 10% full sunlight. They grow fast,not a preferred browse, and can grow in thick bunches without choking each other out. They will provide great cover in only a few years.