Balansa overseeded w/ rye annually?

[Joe7296]

I have a small remote plot that I throw and mowed with winter rye last fall. Germination was pretty good, however the area I put it in is a bottomland area that is wet in the spring. The area is usually completely dry in the fall but can have some standing water in the spring after periods of fast snow melt or big rains because it drains slowly. This spring was particularly wet and killed the rye as it was trying to come back in. Without the rye, it was taken over again by the grasses and weeds that were there before. My original plan was to have rye in fall/ spring and buckwheat in the summer, however that doesn’t seem to be the option for this area.

I was wondering if anyone has tried balansa clover in a situation like this? I thought I could seed rye and balansa this fall, then hopefully mow the area in late spring/ early summer to help the clover and clean up weeds/terminate any rye that made it, then mow again in September and overseed with rye and clover (since balansa looks like it’s an annual). Any thoughts?

 

[Double Creek]

I’m trying a couple acres this year that sounds very similar to what you are describing. I’ve listened to several podcasts and they claim it does very well in wet bottomland. I think it’s worth a try. I have heard that balansa does not like much competition so be sure to terminate the nurse crop and and other weeds early. It also does not grow much in the fall, so don’t be alarmed if the stand looks week early on.

 

[356]

I have a small remote plot that I throw and mowed with winter rye last fall. Germination was pretty good, however the area I put it in is a bottomland area that is wet in the spring. The area is usually completely dry in the fall but can have some standing water in the spring after periods of fast snow melt or big rains because it drains slowly. This spring was particularly wet and killed the rye as it was trying to come back in. Without the rye, it was taken over again by the grasses and weeds that were there before. My original plan was to have rye in fall/ spring and buckwheat in the summer, however that doesn’t seem to be the option for this area.

I was wondering if anyone has tried balansa clover in a situation like this? I thought I could seed rye and balansa this fall, then hopefully mow the area in late spring/ early summer to help the clover and clean up weeds/terminate any rye that made it, then mow again in September and overseed with rye and clover (since balansa looks like it’s an annual). Any thoughts?

It sounds like you have a good native seedbed in there. What about focusing on maximizing the good native browse with selective herbicides to reduce grasses, thus promoting the forbs (weeds) that deer eat and are already in the soil. It sounds like you are almost working against nature with the current program of rye and clover.

If you are looking for a hunting season plot, consider a small burn to promote late season new growth. I was in some bottom land woods where a fire had burned about 1 acre and that was where the deer were in early November.

 

[Joe7296]

I’m trying a couple acres this year that sounds very similar to what you are describing. I’ve listened to several podcasts and they claim it does very well in wet bottomland. I think it’s worth a try. I have heard that balansa does not like much competition so be sure to terminate the nurse crop and and other weeds early. It also does not grow much in the fall, so don’t be alarmed if the stand looks week early on.

Cool, I’m glad to see that I’m not off in left field at least! I’ll see how it works.

 

[Joe7296]

It sounds like you have a good native seedbed in there. What about focusing on maximizing the good native browse with selective herbicides to reduce grasses, thus promoting the forbs (weeds) that deer eat and are already in the soil. It sounds like you are almost working against nature with the current program of rye and clover.

If you are looking for a hunting season plot, consider a small burn to promote late season new growth. I was in some bottom land woods where a fire had burned about 1 acre and that was where the deer were in early November.

The vegetation was mainly tussock sedge and swamp ferns with goldenrod. There was also some bush honeysuckle and meadowsweet mixed in. The food plot is a 10 to 15ft wide strip that’s about 200yds long. I’m essentially planting my shooting lane so that deer will pause for a bite (movement is perpendicular to the shooting lane). I’m working on improving browse in the area with dogwood and hazelnut, and some edge feathering.

If the clover fails I will likely do as you suggest. I also have some other areas on the property that are overgrown pasture that might benefit from a fall clethodem treatment.

 

[Joe7296]

That’s what I’m working with for reference

 

[356]

View attachment 81428
That’s what I’m working with for reference

The photo helps. While I still succumb to the beauty of a fall food plot during hunting season, I am becoming convinced that our deer will use native forbs just as much, and they are more resilient to weather issues (too much/too little rain). This year I have one spot by my main tower that I am not planting a food plot and focusing on native forbs.

 

[Stubborn1VT]

As I've mentioned in a number of threads: alsike clover will handle wet and even standing water. Balansa may also do the trick. I prefer a blend, and always include alsike and medium red clovers.

 

[Newbie]

I'm no expert so take this with a grain of salt, but I've got a similar area that I'd been playing with the past couple years. This year I had pretty good luck with Alsike + Crusade White Clover and Rye. The bonus is they should be around for more than 1 year.

If you can't get anything to grow I'd agree with the above, I'd be happy to sit there in the fall even if it was a mess of native forbs. I'd venture a guess they'd be happier to wade through high native forbs browsing along the way than to step out onto a green carpet of clover.

 

[Turkish]

In MS, balansa has a reputation for being a winner on wet ground.

 

[Joe7296]

The only reason I mentioned Balansa is because google told me it was more wet tolerant than Alsike..

As I've mentioned in a number of threads: alsike clover will handle wet and even standing water. Balansa may also do the trick. I prefer a blend, and always include alsike and medium red clovers

 

[Stubborn1VT]

The only reason I mentioned Balansa is because google told me it was more wet tolerant than Alsike..

My plot routinely has standing water in low spots and alsike doesn't care. I have also frost seeded alsike on top of an inch of ice and it took. Anything is worth a try though.

In my experience, Balansa is more palatable than alsike. It has a higher leaf to stem ratio. Lots of ways to skin a cat.

 

[Joe7296]

I'm no expert so take this with a grain of salt, but I've got a similar area that I'd been playing with the past couple years. This year I had pretty good luck with Alsike + Crusade White Clover and Rye. The bonus is they should be around for more than 1 year.

If you can't get anything to grow I'd agree with the above, I'd be happy to sit there in the fall even if it was a mess of native forbs. I'd venture a guess they'd be happier to wade through high native forbs browsing along the way than to step out onto a green carpet of clover.

Do you get a decent stand of rye in the fall when you seed into the existing clover? That was the only thing I thought might be tough but who knows, I’m relatively new to this kind of stuff. I was hoping the fall mowing would make space for a partial fall crop

 

[Newbie]

Do you get a decent stand of rye in the fall when you seed into the existing clover? That was the only thing I thought might be tough but who knows, I’m relatively new to this kind of stuff. I was hoping the fall mowing would make space for a partial fall crop

I seeded rye and clover together right from the start. I've seeded rye in the spring summer and fall and got results every time. But, I throw it with clover seed after spraying so there is plenty of space for it to get some sunshine and get started. I'm not sure I'd throw into a lush stand of clover, but if you were to mow it back a bit or even roll you may be able to get something to go... in my opinion, if I had a lush field of clover I wouldn't even bother to throw rye into it. I usually use rye as either a nurse crop for my clover or to fill in bare spots. If I had a good stand of clover I'd be happy about it and wouldn't bother trying to get rye in there if it doesn't need it. I wouldn't sacrifice a good clover crop just to broadcast rye in that may or may not do well. That's just my 2cents though, not saying it is right or wrong.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

Have you tested your pH to determine if any lime or nutrients need to be added? Ferns are pretty common in acidic soils, but a soil test will be needed to confirm if that is the case.

If the pH is where it needs to be, I'd spray in early spring when the grasses are about 6" tall. That should take out many of the cool season grasses. then you can come back with another spraying around July 4th, then follow up with a combination of clover and brassicas. Add a couple hundred pounds of fertilizer and you will have a great late season plot with the brassicas and the clover will come back next spring

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I’ve got wet ground that gets fall planted with a blend of peas, oats, brassica, med red clover, fixation balansa, and chicory with a heavy broadcast of rye afterward. After a few years of this it seems I have a LOT of MRC and balansa hard seed in the seedbed from planting and likely from natural reseeding.

This spring I sprayed 2-4d and gly and drilled e3 beans. I didn’t touch it after planting and when I went back to spray again before drilling fall plots into it I found thick clover mixed with the beans that must have germinated after the May spraying. Balansa seems like a fickle one when it comes to northern areas and can come on with a vengeance or be mostly MIA so having some MRC in the mix is nice.

Here’s what my beans looked like a couple weeks ago. Beans, clover, and ragweed, on my!

 

[splitbrow]

I’ve got wet ground that gets fall planted with a blend of peas, oats, brassica, med red clover, fixation balansa, and chicory with a heavy broadcast of rye afterward. After a few years of this it seems I have a LOT of MRC and balansa hard seed in the seedbed from planting and likely from natural reseeding.

This spring I sprayed 2-4d and gly and drilled e3 beans. I didn’t touch it after planting and when I went back to spray again before drilling fall plots into it I found thick clover mixed with the beans that must have germinated after the May spraying. Balansa seems like a fickle one when it comes to northern areas and can come on with a vengeance or be mostly MIA so having some MRC in the mix is nice.

Here’s what my beans looked like a couple weeks ago. Beans, clover, and ragweed, on my!
View attachment 81454

Does balansa seed out late summer, and is it a good at reseeding kind of like crimson?

 

[RGrizzzz]

In my experience, Balansa is more palatable than alsike.

How did you taste it? Salad?

 

[Stubborn1VT]

Higher leaf to stem ratio. Agronomy is your friend.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Does balansa seed out late summer, and is it a good at reseeding kind of like crimson?

Hard for me to know how much is re-seeding vs planted vs hard seed from prior plantings.. But it was heavy in these plots last summer and I mowed it all late july so that very much could have impacted reseeding. So it seems like to does, i cant say with full confidence that it should be expected to.

How did you taste it? Salad?

I've read that the "hollow, fleshy" stems on balansa like berseem contribute to it being preferred forage. The MSU deer lab ranked balansa and berseem tops in deer preference if i recall correctly. I have no information proving it so first hand.