Back into Reloading......

[West_Fork]

If any of you guys go to mom n pop gunshops often, If you see any 450 marlin brass, can you pass the info to me. They want like $200-250 for 50 new cartridges on gunbroker. It cost more than buying the ammo........ Might be getting a lead sled and shooting my own brass.

Anybody own a lead sled? They reduce recoil alot? Part that touches your shoulder don't look too friendly.

A guy I went to the range with last week had one, I did not care for it. What I have found is that when you start strapping the gun down and clamping it and doing all this crap to make it an immovable object, it shoots completely different than from the shoulder. POI can shift dramatically. You don't really engage lead sleds with shoulder and check weld, its more a benchrest thing where you try to get sight picture and trigger control without touching the gun (for some folks).

What I have done in the past on guns I refuse to subject myself to on a bench, besides just adding weight to the gun (which again can change the POI) is use a continuous loop (cargo strap might work) and loop it around a heavy front rest and back to the butt stock to take the recoil. It worked good enough and I did not see a big difference in the POI.

Are you running a brake?

 

[MadMadHoosier]

A guy I went to the range with last week had one, I did not care for it. What I have found is that when you start strapping the gun down and clamping it and doing all this crap to make it an immovable object, it shoots completely different than from the shoulder. POI can shift dramatically. You don't really engage lead sleds with shoulder and check weld, its more a benchrest thing where you try to get sight picture and trigger control without touching the gun (for some folks).

What I have done in the past on guns I refuse to subject myself to on a bench, besides just adding weight to the gun (which again can change the POI) is use a continuous loop (cargo strap might work) and loop it around a heavy front rest and back to the butt stock to take the recoil. It worked good enough and I did not see a big difference in the POI.

Are you running a brake?

Agree. Perhaps if you are just shooting brass, and do not care much about point of impact, a lead sled could save your shoulder. But every time someone tells me they used one to sight their gun in for long range - inside I shake my head. Or… their definition of long range is different than mine :-)

 

[bigboreblr]

Agree. Perhaps if you are just shooting brass, and do not care much about point of impact, a lead sled could save your shoulder. But every time someone tells me they used one to sight their gun in for long range - inside I shake my head. Or… their definition of long range is different than mine :-)

At camp we shoot into a 230 yard swamp ontop of a 20ft or so cliff edge. Got a picnic table there. I have a metal handrail about the same height and distance from the seat just like most of my treestands. I get realistic practice there. I even try to far left and right shots. Of course when sighting in, I do have sandbags and use a shoot n clean stand too.

I got plenty to plany with. I order 100 rounds of 325gr FTX until I get full length brass. gunbroker wants $259 for 50....... A little nutty in my book. Wait in the bushes until some used comes in.

What I dumped into making a load for this gun, shoulda scooped up a 44 mag lever gun. I respect other hunters decisions on how and whee to shoot, I don't shoot far, so I don't need a long range gun. 200 yards If I did good range work over the summer. Otherwise 150 yards. Pretty often in NY get her done in bow ranges, which I wait for. Hunting field edges in standing corn, no need for a 24x scope.....

The 24V.... Think I sold her about 10 years ago. Wanted it for something you cant do in NY.

 

[bigboreblr]

Boy you need a million things to reload it seems. The primer feed built into the lee single press is kinda fussy, so I bought their hand primer, what I am used to. Get ready to prime, now i need a 2nd set of shell holders, but without the base piece that fits in the press ram.

Starting off with 38 grains of H4227 and a 300gr hollow point. Should be around 1900fps. About 68% of the energy of a factory 325gr FTX bullet.

I will load up some basic 30-30's. hornady 150gr round nose and nose up the powder till the groups look nice. Been a decent shooter since I got it about 12 years ago.

 

[Electrodigical]

What I have found is that when you start strapping the gun down and clamping it and doing all this crap to make it an immovable object, it shoots completely different than from the shoulder.

Years ago I made giant block of a forend for a Contender pistol. It was more for fun and experimenting anyway, which was good, as it was a failure. I made a maybe 4" wide, by 6" high, by 10" long fore-end. Inlet'd the rear for the frame, free floated the barrel (as much as you can on them anyway, elevated on aluminum pillars), and made extended front legs that were adjustable for elevation. On the bench it was sold as a rock, might as well have been in a vise. I tried it with a 222 barrel I had. Far from the most accurate barrel I've owned, but it would do 3/4 MOA on average, sometimes half. I made the forend for tinkering with handloads, I figured if I could remove the shooter from the equation as much as possible, I could focus solely on the loading, then tweak and squeeze every ounce of accuracy out of it that I could.

When I shot it, the point of impact was about 14-16" inches off from normal. The load that formally average 3/4 MOA was now closer to 4 MOA.
Ooooooh well...

 

[bigboreblr]

Only lead sled mount I evr used was a used car tire. Straped my early virginia 45 cal flintlock kit to it and fired it a few times. I hand trimmed the breech plug down by a 1/4 inch shorter to fit right inside the barrel. Didnt want the gun blowing up in my face if it was going to.

 

[West_Fork]

I went to the range last weekend and fired about 30 rounds. Everything went ok, but bolt closing was stiff on a few. After I has about half way through I realized I didn't size any of the brass. I de-primed, cleaned, annealed, and loaded them back up. They shot just like normal, except for the last round which had no powder.

H4831 isn't doing well in this 243w barrel, SD is in the 20's. I am going to move to a slower powder (magnum, magpro, h1000, viht something) and see if I can't get the SD down to the teens.

 

[bigboreblr]

I'm not reloading for volume, or atleast yet so far. I weigh everything I use, the bullets, the empty cases, the charges, then the whole thing. IF you weighed the whole thing, you would of seen a round w/o powder.

H4831 is good for heavy bullets in 243, what are you shooting? For deer, varmits, targets? I loved reloader 17 for 30-30 and 7.62x39 Might be one to try.

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

I went to the range last weekend and fired about 30 rounds. Everything went ok, but bolt closing was stiff on a few. After I has about half way through I realized I didn't size any of the brass. I de-primed, cleaned, annealed, and loaded them back up. They shot just like normal, except for the last round which had no powder.

H4831 isn't doing well in this 243w barrel, SD is in the 20's. I am going to move to a slower powder (magnum, magpro, h1000, viht something) and see if I can't get the SD down to the teens.

Two questions
How/why are you decapping your cases without resizing?
Did the case without powder lodge the bullet in the barrel?

I don't know what your reloading process is but you should be looking in each case for powder, over or under charge, before you seat the bullet.

 

[Electrodigical]

A lot of people use a universal decap die first, then clean the brass, then size.

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

A lot of people use a universal decap die first, then clean the brass, then size.

Do you clean the brass a second time to remove the sizing lube?

The only time I can think of decapping without sizing is if you you're reloading military brass with crimped primers.

 

[Foggy47]

For high accuracy rounds.....I used to decap, then uniform and deburr the flash hole, check depth of primer pockets and then tumble them. Lots of competitive shooters will clean the primer pocket after each firing. Not necessary for hunting or most target rounds.

 

[bigboreblr]

Off to a great start. Decapped about 30 rounds then broke the decapping pin. I did buy a spare.

 

[West_Fork]

Two questions
How/why are you decapping your cases without resizing?
Did the case without powder lodge the bullet in the barrel?

I don't know what your reloading process is but you should be looking in each case for powder, over or under charge, before you seat the bullet.

I decap before wet tumbling to clean primer pockets, as if it matters. Then I anneal, size, expand, trim, clean, reload.
The primer put the bullet about .100" into the rifling. A little tap and it falls right out. Handguns are worse than rifles for this. I had to pull the barrel anyhow to do some minor chamber work and thread the muzzle, then spent all weekend making a muzzle brake so I did not get any reloading done.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Lead Sleds suck. Good way to wreck optics and stocks since the recoil energy has limited places to go. In many cases they are used as a crutch vs actually learning how to shoot a gun accurately (not hard from a bench or prone) which makes me dislike them more.

I used to de-prime in a stand alone step before cleaning brass primarily because the internet said using expander balls causes runout and I liked the primer pockets getting cleaned a bit when tumbling so I pulled the decapping pin and expander ball from dies and expanded with a mandrel in separate step if necessary. Anymore, i use custom honed FL dies or Bushing dies to avoid overworking brass and minimize the amount of expanding work to be done by the expander balls. I dont have patience to deal with 2 cleaning cycles unless brass is filthy and dont care if primer pockets are dirty. So fired cases get lubed then sized/de-primed in one step now.

 

[West_Fork]

Lead Sleds suck. Good way to wreck optics and stocks since the recoil energy has limited places to go. In many cases they are used as a crutch vs actually learning how to shoot a gun accurately (not hard from a bench or prone) which makes me dislike them more.

I used to de-prime in a stand alone step before cleaning brass primarily because the internet said using expander balls causes runout and I liked the primer pockets getting cleaned a bit when tumbling so I pulled the decapping pin and expander ball from dies and expanded with a mandrel in separate step if necessary. Anymore, i use custom honed FL dies or Bushing dies to avoid overworking brass and minimize the amount of expanding work to be done by the expander balls. I dont have patience to deal with 2 cleaning cycles unless brass is filthy and dont care if primer pockets are dirty. So fired cases get lubed then sized/de-primed in one step now.

Same, my goal is to handle them as little as possible. I treat precision rifle rounds different by depriming first, but general purpose stuff, handgun, they get tumbled the dump into the case feeder and come out fully loaded. The second cleaning on my precision rifle is simply to remove the lube and does not take much. I lube the snot out of my cases. I wasted a bit of time sizing and check concentricity between presses etc. The only thing I could determine was that uneven case lube is what leads to runout in cases. Then did some shooting studies and found that case runout did not make a huge difference; my fliers are caused by something else.

I love anything PMA, the case holders for drill motors is fabulous.

 

[bigboreblr]

I dont shoot far, maybe 200 max. Debating whether to full size or just neck size the 308. IF I didn't own the 450 marlin, I'd probably not even get the reloading setup. Would of bought the oldest kid a turrent and a single press.

I am starting off with what i know. Old lube pad n rcbs lube.

Traditional muzzleloading is a whole different animal, but weighing the bullets before you use them helped alot. I did the same with modern bullets too. MAybe reject one or two out of 100. Even If I rejected them, I would load them as practice ammo.

 

[West_Fork]

I know some guys sort bullets by length. Don't waste money on a neck sizer, go full and back the die out to what fits in the chamber. I used to I turn my sizing die out, take a piece of fired brass and run it through the action to make sure it has a tight bolt close fit. Then I run it through the die, turning it in a little at a time until the bolt closes without resistance. This should put you 1-3 thousands under your no-go size.

These days I use case and headspace gauges and a dial indicator to set my sizing dies, but the process is the same other than I can do it a bit quicker with an indicator and don't have to fumble the rifle.
New brake.

 

[Electrodigical]

I've learned over the years that sorting bullets by weight can work wonders, do amazing things. Or do little to nothing. lol All depends on the bullet.

I think the internet is full of "one size fits all" advice, when when we don't all function in the same world. You got guys like Cortina out there telling people to stop neck sizing, based on what he and all these top level F class and PRS shooters do. But none of them are shooting off the shelf rifles/chambers, and sure as heck none of them are shooting cheap rifles, or shooting great grandpa's sporterized war trophy.

Maybe the best advice is "do what works best". But most people aren't willing to find out. And I get it, most people don't necessarily need "best". I know myself, what I NEED out of each firearm varies one from another. With some good enough is good enough, with others short of putting every bullet into a one caliber hole, it isn't good enough. But that's their purpose, so see how close to that I can get them.

I think I said it before, I have one large vibrator tumbler, two small ones and one wet rotary tumbler. (and an ultrasonic cleaner) And I almost never clean my brass. When I do (did) was when I was shooting lots of USPSA/IDPA/Multi gun, clean pistol brass played better with the progressive presses. Bottle neck rifle brass, I can't recall if I've even polished them.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I've learned over the years that sorting bullets by weight can work wonders, do amazing things. Or do little to nothing. lol All depends on the bullet.

I think the internet is full of "one size fits all" advice, when when we don't all function in the same world. You got guys like Cortina out there telling people to stop neck sizing, based on what he and all these top level F class and PRS shooters do. But none of them are shooting off the shelf rifles/chambers, and sure as heck none of them are shooting cheap rifles, or shooting great grandpa's sporterized war trophy.

Maybe the best advice is "do what works best". But most people aren't willing to find out. And I get it, most people don't necessarily need "best". I know myself, what I NEED out of each firearm varies one from another. With some good enough is good enough, with others short of putting every bullet into a one caliber hole, it isn't good enough. But that's their purpose, so see how close to that I can get them.

I think I said it before, I have one large vibrator tumbler, two small ones and one wet rotary tumbler. (and an ultrasonic cleaner) And I almost never clean my brass. When I do (did) was when I was shooting lots of USPSA/IDPA/Multi gun, clean pistol brass played better with the progressive presses. Bottle neck rifle brass, I can't recall if I've even polished them.

For a long time I bought into Cortina's "neck sizing is dumb" takes. Didn't really make sense to me why you wouldn't just form them all to the same way for every firing. Then i got some Alpha brass with necks that were too thin to create my desired neck tension with my custom honed forster FL dies so I bought a cheap LEE collet die rather than an entire new FL sizing die for 100 pieces of brass. I've gotta say, after 1 firing or so, i like the idea of just squeezing the necks down with a collet die and not having to lube and tumble lube off at all. Maybe I'll want to use then even more but I'll need more messing around to make sure I dont have tight bolt close to know for sure.

That said, i'm not looking for Fclass or Benchrest winning precision - but PRS level precision which is still pretty dang good.