Apples near cedars?

Rockon

A good 3 year old buck
I planted apples trees on my hunting land with some success, but I recently moved into a new house and want to plant some trees in the yard. The problem is I'm surrounded with big cedars. Are there any apple cultivars that can do ok along cedars? Even though these will be at the homestead this will still be primarily for wildlife. Anyone have suggestions or should I scrap the idea all together. Zone 4. Thanks.
 
There are varieties available.
Fireside, liberty, enterprise, regent, freedom, prisiclla, Macintosh to name a few.

Id say go for it and don't look back. Plant what fits your needs/wants.
 
No, don't scrap the idea.

I'm going to let a Zone 4 person answer your question, but there are plenty of apples that make great crops despite CAR.
 
Eastern red cedar - Juniperus virginiana or northern white cedar -Thuja occidentalis? The red cedars and other trees in the juniper family are the hosts for cedar apple rust, white cedar will not be problem. Seen recommendations to keep apple trees at least 500 feet from any red cedars but I would probably give it even more
 
You might want to look at some of the recommendations that Sandbur has on this site for trees he has. He is in zone 3 even I think and has posted some not so nice pics of what CAR looks like when on his cedar trees (apparently red).
 
Red Cedar is the culprit, not white cedar. I have no known red cedar within miles of me and have very little CAR even on susceptible varieties like Shizuka. If you have red cedars around avoid the susceptible varieties.

Cedar Apple Rust (Gymnosporangium juniperi-virginianae Schwein.)

By David Taylor

This fungus is wide spread in eastern North America. It is usually associated with rural areas that alternate between farmland and forest or thicket. It requires two hosts to be present, usually within a mile of each other, a juniper species, usually eastern redcedar (Juniperus virginiana), and an apple, crabapple (Malus or Pyrus spp. depending on source), hawthorn (Crataegus spp.) or quince (Cydonia oblonga). The fungus takes on different forms on each host and most readily noticeable on redcedar. One form or another of the fungus can be can be found throughout the growing season, but may not be seen in drier sites until after a series of rains. It frequently is found in disturbed or open areas such as along gravel or dirt roads, trails openings, pastures and apple orchards.

Cedar apple rust is a member of the family Pucciniaceae, a group of fungi that contains many species that usually require two or more hosts to complete the life cycle. Members of this family are known as rusts because the color of many is orange or reddish at some point in the life cycle. Many rusts are disease agents of crop plants including black stem rust of wheat, soybean rust and white pine blister rust. From three to five different spore types are produce by rusts, but one is always a basidiospore. These spores are produced on structures called basidia place the family is in the Basidiomycota, a large group that includes many common mushrooms. Large infestations of this rust can reduce yield on apples, blemish the fruit, and lead to weakening and death of redcedar.

This particular rust produces four kinds of spores: basidiospores, teliospores, spermatia, and aeciospores. Teliospores are produce on gelatinous telial horns (see photo) which originate from golf ball-like growths on redcedars or other junipers. Telial horns emerge following a warm spring rain in April to May. Five to seven sets of teliohorns can be produced during spring, one after each warm rain. Teliospores germinate to form basidia. Basidia produce basidiospores that are released into the air, blown two to three miles potentially to an apple or hawthorn leaf or fruit. They germinate and form a yellow to orange spot on the leaf or fruit (see photo). These spots produce spermogonia that in turn produce spermatia. The spermatia are released into a sticky liquid attractive to many insects. As insects carry spermatia from one spot to the next fertilization takes place. The fungus grows through the leaf and produce aecia on the underside of the leaf (see photo). The aecia produce aeciospores that are windblown back to the redcedars. They then germinate and start the formation of galls that in the following year will produce telial horns to start the process over again.
 
Rockon, have you identified which cedar you have?

Chestnut crab, Red Baron, and Hazen have been growing here for over 25 years with red cedars.

So has dolgo.

Liberty has done OK here and quite a few of the crabs.

I am called zone 4 on the new map, but had -41 on one old thermometer last winter.


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I also think planting trees out in the open air helps to reduce CAR.

If your yard lacks air flow, it might be more difficult.


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B8AF08B4-017A-411B-A9AF-E2B6039E7BE5.jpeg

This started on one of my dolgo. First time this year. Is it CAR? I haven’t seen a cedar within miles of our place but maybe they are hiding nearby.
 
View attachment 24944

This started on one of my dolgo. First time this year. Is it CAR? I haven’t seen a cedar within miles of our place but maybe they are hiding nearby.
Is that CAR? I thought CAR was primarily on the leaf's? Could that be Cedarr Quince rust? I hope someone who knows chimes in... that's scary looking.
 
Rockon, have you identified which cedar you have?

Chestnut crab, Red Baron, and Hazen have been growing here for over 25 years with red cedars.

So has dolgo.

Liberty has done OK here and quite a few of the crabs.

I am called zone 4 on the new map, but had -41 on one old thermometer last winter.


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I'm actually not sure which species of cedar I have. I'll do some more research. I was hoping to plant freedom, liberty and enterprise like I did on my hunting ground. I like the idea of dolgo and chestnut crab as well. I had -35 for several days last winter.
 
White cedar is also commonly known as arborvitae. The "needles" on white cedar will be soft and flattened, as opposed to sharp and pointed just like needles on red cedar. Poke your hand into the trees - if you get stabbed by sharp needles, it's red cedar. If you feel nothing but soft, slick-feeling "needles" - it's white cedar, and no problem for your apple trees.
 
That certainly looks like CAR but what’s confusing is that the leaves look super clean

Regardless I would eliminate ASAP View attachment 24944

This started on one of my dolgo. First time this year. Is it CAR? I haven’t seen a cedar within miles of our place but maybe they are hiding nearby.
 
In the spring, I take new bare root trees and plant them to pots at my home before transplanting them to the camp in the fall. During those first few months at home, they are about 20 yards downwind from the biggest red cedar ya ever want to see. As such, this is the perfect Petri dish to see which varieties are susceptible to CAR, and which ones are highly resistant. In my experience, varieties that are suspectable to CAR are Honeycrisp, Wickson, and Winecrisp. Varieties that are highly resistant are Collaos, Enterprise, Goldrush, Harrison, Florina Querina, Franklin, and Redfield. Regardless, don't let the presence of cedars in the area slow you down. In my experience, CAR is more cosmetic than catastrophic.
 

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Is that CAR? I thought CAR was primarily on the leaf's? Could that be Cedarr Quince rust? I hope someone who knows chimes in... that's scary looking.

Yes, Cedar Quince Rust. On hawthorn it affects both leaves and fruit, but on apples it only affects fruit but not leaves as a general rule.
 
I've noticed that guys in the north are affected by CAR much less than we are here, even if they have cedars around. For instance, you will notice that Apple Junkie sees little CAR on his Goldrush. In my area, Goldrush is completely defoliated by CAR every year. It has to grow a second set of leaves. This doesn't kill the tree, but it does keep it from making fruit. There could be a few scrubby little misshapen apples, but that will be it.

This is a picture of Goldrush I took last year. If you can believe it - it's worse this year.

iTfPXq2.jpg


This is another one that looks like I made a bad choice. I will topwork this tree next spring.

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Yet, a few feet away from both of these trees are resistant cultivars that are doing just fine and making apples.

DqyVgRy.jpg


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So, bottom line is that in some places CAR isn't a big factor, but in other places, you had better have resistant varieties if you want any fruit.
 
I am shocked by the damage CAR is doing to some of your trees Native, especially your Goldrush. I don’t see anything even close to that damage on any of my trees, and my goldrush was spotless, in spite of being side by side with Honeycrip, Wickson, and Winecrisp – all of which showed obvious sighs of CAR.

One of the benefits of this open forum is being able to compare notes from folks all over the country. I have not seen any information that would suggest CAR behaves differently in different regions of the country, but you might be on to something. For what it’s worth my goldrush is on a B.118 rootstock. Clearly my experience and yours are vastly different, thanks chiming in – ya learn something every day.
 
I am shocked by the damage CAR is doing to some of your trees Native, especially your Goldrush. I don’t see anything even close to that damage on any of my trees, and my goldrush was spotless, in spite of being side by side with Honeycrip, Wickson, and Winecrisp – all of which showed obvious sighs of CAR.

One of the benefits of this open forum is being able to compare notes from folks all over the country. I have not seen any information that would suggest CAR behaves differently in different regions of the country, but you might be on to something. For what it’s worth my goldrush is on a B.118 rootstock. Clearly my experience and yours are vastly different, thanks chiming in – ya learn something every day.

Yes, the forums have been a learning experience for me too. We have a great thing going here that will benefit all of us in gaining knowledge about different areas of the country.
 
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