Apples near cedars?

[Bowsnbucks]

The posts I've made about some of the apple varieties we have at camp aren't an indicator of what some of you guys may experience. We're in the mountains, with no juniper family plants anywhere near for miles, so CAR doesn't affect us. We're also blessed with an almost constant breeze because we're on a ridge top, so air flow helps us with keeping trees drier and sunlit. Those 3 factors will help with most disease problems - sun, breeze, and no juniper family plants near us.

I feel for you guys that have little or no breeze, high humidity, and have red cedars all over your countryside. FB also flourishes with rainy, humid weather conditions. Sooty blotch, flyspeck, & mildew are also more common in those conditions. We do get some sooty blotch and flyspeck on our camp apples, but they don't affect apple development. They're only cosmetic flaws. The apples aren't "pretty" - but the deer don't care, and it doesn't slow us from eating some !!

The forum DOES point out differences between geographic regions and climates. The more info shared here, the better for all of us. I've learned a TON here about many habitat topics, thanks to all of you guys ………….. and some who no longer post here. I wish some were still on here.

 

[homerj]

CAR can obviously be problematic for people who choose not to spray their trees. It can be dealt with rather easily for those who choose to spray Immunox a few times each spring.

I can't grow tomatoes very well without spraying some type of fungicide. I like tomatoes, so I spray the plants with chlorothalonil

 

[farmlegend]

Red Cedar is the culprit, not white cedar. I have no known red cedar within miles of me and have very little CAR even on susceptible varieties like Shizuka. If you have red cedars around avoid the susceptible varieties.

Cedar Apple Rust (Gymnosporangium juniperi-virginianae Schwein.)

By David Taylor

This fungus is wide spread in eastern North America. It is usually associated with rural areas that alternate between farmland and forest or thicket. It requires two hosts to be present, usually within a mile of each other, a juniper species, usually eastern redcedar (Juniperus virginiana), and an apple, crabapple (Malus or Pyrus spp. depending on source), hawthorn (Crataegus spp.) or quince (Cydonia oblonga). The fungus takes on different forms on each host and most readily noticeable on redcedar. One form or another of the fungus can be can be found throughout the growing season, but may not be seen in drier sites until after a series of rains. It frequently is found in disturbed or open areas such as along gravel or dirt roads, trails openings, pastures and apple orchards.

Cedar apple rust is a member of the family Pucciniaceae, a group of fungi that contains many species that usually require two or more hosts to complete the life cycle. Members of this family are known as rusts because the color of many is orange or reddish at some point in the life cycle. Many rusts are disease agents of crop plants including black stem rust of wheat, soybean rust and white pine blister rust. From three to five different spore types are produce by rusts, but one is always a basidiospore. These spores are produced on structures called basidia place the family is in the Basidiomycota, a large group that includes many common mushrooms. Large infestations of this rust can reduce yield on apples, blemish the fruit, and lead to weakening and death of redcedar.

This particular rust produces four kinds of spores: basidiospores, teliospores, spermatia, and aeciospores. Teliospores are produce on gelatinous telial horns (see photo) which originate from golf ball-like growths on redcedars or other junipers. Telial horns emerge following a warm spring rain in April to May. Five to seven sets of teliohorns can be produced during spring, one after each warm rain. Teliospores germinate to form basidia. Basidia produce basidiospores that are released into the air, blown two to three miles potentially to an apple or hawthorn leaf or fruit. They germinate and form a yellow to orange spot on the leaf or fruit (see photo). These spots produce spermogonia that in turn produce spermatia. The spermatia are released into a sticky liquid attractive to many insects. As insects carry spermatia from one spot to the next fertilization takes place. The fungus grows through the leaf and produce aecia on the underside of the leaf (see photo). The aecia produce aeciospores that are windblown back to the redcedars. They then germinate and start the formation of galls that in the following year will produce telial horns to start the process over again.

That probably explains why apples have been an abysmal failure at my farm over the years; eastern redcedar are common on my farm, and darn near every apple tree succumbs within five years of planting.

 

[SwampCat]

That probably explains why apples have been an abysmal failure at my farm over the years; eastern redcedar are common on my farm, and darn near every apple tree succumbs within five years of planting.

I have acres of red cedar. All my apple trees are within 50 ft of a cedar and supposedly cedar apple rust resistant. Some show minor leaf spotting and that is the only symptom

 

[Native Hunter]

That probably explains why apples have been an abysmal failure at my farm over the years; eastern redcedar are common on my farm, and darn near every apple tree succumbs within five years of planting.

CAR resistant cultivars are the answer. I'm in a place that's really bad for CAR but have no trouble growing good cultivars without spraying.

 

[Turkey Creek]

There are lots of CAR resistant varieties, no need to plant one that isn't if you would prefer not to spray.

 

[b116757]

At the house zone 6 heavy CAR area I have

McIntosh
Enterprise
Liberty
Williams Pride
Freedom
Redfree
Red Delicious
Had a Haralson for many years also it did suffer a little from CAR but cambium miners are what did it in and in it weakened state the CAR was a factor at that point.

Of those Red Delicious is the best deer apple based on drop time for me. These are old trees I planted over 20 years ago so I can say with certainty CAR isn’t an issue for them. I have many many other cultivators on the farms but they are all under 5 years in the ground. Take a good hard look at crabapple trees I’m more interested in crabs myself they are much much tougher generally speaking than apple cultivars tend to be but in your yard having some full size apples is great we do eat them make cider and I give away some to neighbors if their interested in making something with them.

 

[bigboreblr]

galarina, kerr, and sundance are CAR resistant and great to add for deer. Pristine looked rusty last year, planted that one in june of 2023. So it missed getting it from my home area in the spring.

wolf river seems to be easy to find in big box stores and is CAR resistant. Liberty is becoming more and more easier to find too.

Seems the online tree nurseries are not having a wonderful sales year. Between the economy being a bit rougher and last summers drought, seems sales are down. Lots of places to get trees still. Was peeking at rueky creek trees in kansas, they still got a ton of good apples trees still.

Also, rthe right rootstock is important. M111 or M7 for clay soil, B118 for sandy soil.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

McIntosh are known to be very susceptible to several diseases. We have zero McIntosh.

As bigboreblr mentioned above, we also have Galarina, Kerr, Sundance, and Wolf River at camp with no problems. Dandies for deer.

 

[Stubborn1VT]

I planted a number of varieties before I knew what CAR was. I'm surrounded by red cedar and everything failed or struggled. I replanted with more resistant cultivars and the only one that has really stood out is Freedom. It has remained very clean and grown well.

I have Liberty, Arkansas Black and Chestnut crab on the way from Whitetail Crabs.

 

[bigboreblr]

I got mcintosh, empire, and macoun. I live in NY, about the only good thing left since the remington factory closed....... Liberty and enterprise are from NY too. Everyone who has ever put a post on this part of the forum should have an enteprrise.

stubborn1. I frost seeded the foodplot today before the storm. Went past my enterprise, got plenty of that too. You should graft one of those too.

Likely topworking or digging up golden delicious, droptine, pristine, and maybe mcintosh now too. Thought it only got bothered by scab. Which is a battle I will be fighting in a few trees. Wife loves macoun and empire, so it'll be around too. Have to fight peach leaf curl for her too and maybe pear fireblight in kieffer / bartlett.

Middle kid's father in law works on a large farm that also does fruit. He got him an apple tree of some sort and now doesn't want Rhuby from SLN. Debating whether to get another aidrondack, a mn 1734, or a kerr. This would be for up at camp with no CAR. MAybe just ride rhuby out there.....

Can't tell you how much, but you should have a few early trees 10-15% lets say. Williams pride and redfree are great easy to find disease resistant varieties. Atleast have 1 earlier tree. Chestnut I hear is pretty good too. Kerr is ripe early, but hangs on the tree a long time, so it's half n half an early tree. Trailman has been at my home for 2 years 25 feet from a grove of red cedar. Leaves look fine. Digging that tree up and taking it to camp this spring. Grafting a twig or two on my other trees for scion sourcing in the future

 

[buckdeer1]

I agree just plant resistant. I doubt if there are many places where theres not a cedar within 2 miles. Same with pears, only plant FB resistant

 

[bigboreblr]

Cedars often grow on spots where most other things won't.

I see red cedar as good. Great cover and deer do eat it in the winter.

I would be hesitsnt to cut red cedars because i have or want apples.