All Things Habitat - Lets talk.....
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Apples,apples and more apples
- Thread starter Chainsaw
- Start date
sandbur
5 year old buck +
chummer
5 year old buck +
Last winter was about as mild as we get so tough to judge but it looks like all my top works are going to survive. I think I will continue to top graft and graft rootstock after it has been in the ground 3 years.
DrDirtNap
5 year old buck +
DrDirtNap
5 year old buck +
Roots were good on the Dolgo rootstock.
I have no complaints on any of the trees or rootstock I received from Blue Hills...other than the Dolgo rootstock being a little big for my liking.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Chainsaw
5 year old buck +
Sandbur, I don’t have a clue if grafting higher is a good or bad thing but the particular rootstock I was using (p18) the top was as large as the bottom. On the plus side higher grafting allows presumably deeper planting and eventually more roots but I simply have no experience in it to share.
In the case of the pear rootstock I ordered 1/4:inch. Still some of the 1/4 inch were larger than 1/4 inch as expected as 1/4 inch is defined as 1/4 to 3/8 inch. Luckily some of our pear scions were also larger so it worked out. When I brought some Turning Point scions down to Blue Hills Nursery last week they were busy as could be packing orders. I got to see lots of trees that had been grown on standard rootstock and especially liked what I saw on the standard rootstock both in IDolgo and Antonovka. Next year those two rootstocks will be my go to List. And as an aside I will order my rootstocks early before the 1/4 inch *get sold out.
*1/4 inch made for easier grafting for me but I‘m still not completely sold on the idea that 1/4 inch rootstock will grow into the same size by fall as 3/8 inch rootstock. Need to see the results in my garden and since this is my first year I simply have zero experience on the matter.Thus the asterisk; am doubtful that grafting 1/4 inch onto 3/8 inch rootstock will take as effectively as 1/4 inch to 1/4 inch.And am still unsure if 3/8,inch rootstock will produce by fall the same size plants as 1/4/inch rootstock.
Last edited:
Chainsaw
5 year old buck +
Planting and grafting continues. Have 74 trees total received, planted, caged, weed mats down and trunk screening in place to date. My son came up from Lake George for three days and we did most of the planting then. It went well BUT I had pre-dug the holes too deep and too long. Got the top soil mixed with some subsoil and it took way too much work to refill the giant pit holes I had dug. To top it off without the frozen ground we had to refill the holes by hand as we couldn't get the tractor thru all of the thawed wet spots to get to some of the various sites. Some holes were filled with water where the ground water was near the surface, skipped those holes mostly. Since then redug smaller and shallower holes for the next tree shipments two of three of which are due today and tomorrow. This first picture shows some of the trees just planted. Ground is very rough but there are some productive wild apples already growing there so the planted newly trees should do OK . There is still a lot of site work to do there.
![IMG_0228[4317].jpg](https://habitat-talk.com/data/attachments/28/28920-60985e30e2e56ca83222946ed5d5c565.jpg "IMG_0228[4317].jpg")
Grafting continues with more apple root stocks arriving later today. Was able to cut a bunch of larger diameter scions off of pear trees just purchased. Ended up getting close to fifty grafts off of them. Also in an effort to encourage the Turning Point Tree to grow more usuable scions for next year it got a massive water sprout/sucker inducing pruning job on one of its many main branches. The cut area has a fully open south/south west sun exposure. Am hoping to get a couple of hundred grafts out of the cut offs and ton's of sucker branches growing in for cutting as scions in 2021. The ground underneath Turning Point will also be sprayed with Roundup in a few days and Urea will be applied to also encourage more "scion" growth.
Before "pruning" Turning Point Tree;
![IMG_0148[4319].jpg](https://habitat-talk.com/data/attachments/28/28921-c0498e17ceee1de6161301391d32f970.jpg "IMG_0148[4319].jpg")
After "pruning" Turning Point Tree;
![IMG_0162[4318].jpg](https://habitat-talk.com/data/attachments/28/28922-52ce84d991e7e8e96b3e45555e83b888.jpg "IMG_0162[4318].jpg")
Hoping it works to turn that branch into a scion factory. Any new guys reading this please note; This is not how to prune a tree to produce more apples that I know of and the aim is to encourage sucker branching/water sprouts which is not normally a desired outcome. This summer will tell if it works as planned.
Grafting continues with more apple root stocks arriving later today. Was able to cut a bunch of larger diameter scions off of pear trees just purchased. Ended up getting close to fifty grafts off of them. Also in an effort to encourage the Turning Point Tree to grow more usuable scions for next year it got a massive water sprout/sucker inducing pruning job on one of its many main branches. The cut area has a fully open south/south west sun exposure. Am hoping to get a couple of hundred grafts out of the cut offs and ton's of sucker branches growing in for cutting as scions in 2021. The ground underneath Turning Point will also be sprayed with Roundup in a few days and Urea will be applied to also encourage more "scion" growth.
Before "pruning" Turning Point Tree;
After "pruning" Turning Point Tree;
Hoping it works to turn that branch into a scion factory. Any new guys reading this please note; This is not how to prune a tree to produce more apples that I know of and the aim is to encourage sucker branching/water sprouts which is not normally a desired outcome. This summer will tell if it works as planned.
Last edited:
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
^^^^^ Chainsaw - I've pruned a couple older trees at camp just to get more water sprouts. I had great luck on limbs that were more horizontal, like the 2 bent over on the right of your pic above. Some water sprouts formed on the trunks too, but the horizontal branches produced lots of really nice grafting sprouts. All were vertically growing and straight. FWIW.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
A note of caution to anyone with fruit trees planted and cultivating the ground around your fruit trees - don't get too close!!
My camp suffered the loss of about a dozen or so apple trees roughly 15 to 17 years ago. They had been planted and established for about 5 years. We then ran plows and disks between the rows to plant clover in the orchard. We killed those trees because at the time, we didn't know that the tiny feeder roots can go out to around 20 ft. from the trunks. We chopped up the tiny feeder roots and lost all those trees. After I contacted Penn State and a few local commercial orchards, they told me not to work the ground once the trees get roots growing outward and are established. Their info and guidance - not mine!
We now do NO cultivation within 20 ft. of any of our trees. We haven't lost any since that episode of rookie ignorance. FWIW. - - - YMMV.
My camp suffered the loss of about a dozen or so apple trees roughly 15 to 17 years ago. They had been planted and established for about 5 years. We then ran plows and disks between the rows to plant clover in the orchard. We killed those trees because at the time, we didn't know that the tiny feeder roots can go out to around 20 ft. from the trunks. We chopped up the tiny feeder roots and lost all those trees. After I contacted Penn State and a few local commercial orchards, they told me not to work the ground once the trees get roots growing outward and are established. Their info and guidance - not mine!
We now do NO cultivation within 20 ft. of any of our trees. We haven't lost any since that episode of rookie ignorance. FWIW. - - - YMMV.
scott44
5 year old buck +
Looks good! How many total trees are you planting?
Chainsaw
5 year old buck +
Thanks Scott44. The total one year old trees being planted is 107 trees. Most of rootstock being grafted now will go in some of the fenced garden beds previously set up for growing daylilies. Am planting the grafted rootstock in the established beds as it is easier and less costly to tend to them there versus planting in their permanent locations. Will also plant as many of the grafted rootstocks directly in the field as time allows this spring. That will probably amount to less than 50.
This fall, Would like to transplant a couple of hundred of the rootstock now being grafted if it is advisable to transplant plant young trees here in the fall.
Chainsaw
5 year old buck +
Thanks Bowsnbucks for that tip. After reading your post I went out in one apple area and checked some trees that had water sprouts growing as a result of broken limbs and it was just as you said; the horizontal branches were loaded with vertical and straight scion material. I will keep that in mind next year when other trees are likely to be pruned to create better scions. Along with sun orientation, horizontal branching will be the preferred scion producers.
ls there still calendar time to prune another tree or two for 2021 scions? Our buds are still tight and not swollen yet but will be any day now.
Chainsaw
5 year old buck +
Finally ran out of rootstock today so grafting is done for 2020. Drove the razor knife yesterday into my thumb twice. The thumb stung as if hit with a hammer each time and even bled profusely from the impact for a minute or two each time but thanks to the no cut gloves disaster was avoided. To be safer today, I bandaged the thumb ahead of time and put two, no cut gloves on the left hand. It worked; the razor knife never went anywhere near that thumb. I can’t imagine grafting without those gloves on. I had completed over five hundred live grafts without a slip and then suddenly two slips in one day. Either slip would have been an emergency room deal if not for the gloves.
A big thank you to Ryan at Blue Hill Wildlife Nursery for the advice to wear the no- cut gloves. It sure was nice to learn something from someone else instead of learning the hard way. Thank you Ryan!
A big thank you to Ryan at Blue Hill Wildlife Nursery for the advice to wear the no- cut gloves. It sure was nice to learn something from someone else instead of learning the hard way. Thank you Ryan!
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Chainsaw post #92 - I discovered the horizontal branch, vertical scion/water sprout production by luck and observation at camp. After pruning a few older trees a couple springs ago, I noticed how many really nice, straight water sprouts grew up off the horizontal limbs. You can get nice water sprouts from other spots on a tree too, but the horizontal limbs seemed to be "scion farms." Just reading the signs nature gave me.
Good luck with your pruning / scions / grafting.
Good luck with your pruning / scions / grafting.
Chainsaw
5 year old buck +
Excellent Chummer. Where are you housing your bucket temperature wise. Mine are in the forty degree range so far and I'm not seeing any activity yet.
Bowsnbucks, You are right the data is right there in front of all of us but sometimes it is missed. And thanks for the good lucks, luck is always a good thing and especially when one is learning.
chummer
5 year old buck +
They have been in the garage, in the dark. I uncovered them and moved them to where they can get some light two days ago. I will get a picture today but almost all of them are showing life now. I will leave them in garage this week and move them to shady side of house next week. This week is going to be cold and windy so I will leave them in for that.
Chainsaw
5 year old buck +
Thanks Jeremy. With no windows in the barn and it being insulated the temperature may be too low to get them going. I’ll move some to the heated upper barn and leave the doors open on the lower barn during the day to let the warmer temps in.
Planted and caged Saint Lawrence Nursery and Northern Whitetail Crabs trees over the last two days, just have an eight
tree order coming from Fedco yet so the lower barn doesn’t need to be kept so cold now(was keeping it cold there to help keep the trees from waking up before planting).
Brought a couple of bags of Urea up from the lower barn yesterday. With this being a rainy day and a bad blow day, I’ll measure out and bag individual doses of the Urea and spread around some of the mature apple trees. Will give it a month or so before giving the new trees a very small dose of less potent fertilizer.
Planted and caged Saint Lawrence Nursery and Northern Whitetail Crabs trees over the last two days, just have an eight
tree order coming from Fedco yet so the lower barn doesn’t need to be kept so cold now(was keeping it cold there to help keep the trees from waking up before planting).
Brought a couple of bags of Urea up from the lower barn yesterday. With this being a rainy day and a bad blow day, I’ll measure out and bag individual doses of the Urea and spread around some of the mature apple trees. Will give it a month or so before giving the new trees a very small dose of less potent fertilizer.
