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Apples,apples and more apples
- Thread starter Chainsaw
- Start date
Chainsaw
5 year old buck +
That will open up prime fruit tree ground. We can dig up a Gigantus plant here and you can divide it into thirty or more plants as a start for a screen. I've not seen anything better. It takes very little ground yet is an effective screen.
Chainsaw
5 year old buck +
Thank you Sandbur. Will do. My scramble for scions this year was due to my inexperience. First I had no idea to start with as to what what was a good scion and secondly I didn't know that trees had to be prepared a year in advance to produce large amounts of good scions. And actually my chosen trees did have some good scions but they were at the tops of the trees. Cutting scions thirty to forty feet up is not too exciting to me. Likely pruning the trees as was done this spring will produce quality scions within fairly easy reach. And hopefully next spring I will be offering scions to others and you as well.
Chainsaw
5 year old buck +
We will likely use up all apple root stocks but will have a few pear root stocks left over and will plan as you say to plant them and graft to them next year. No rootstock delivery yet but UPS says tomorrow.
sandbur
5 year old buck +
Right now, I am up to my neck in scion and don’t know where I am going to put them.
Some will have to go on a franken tree.
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chummer
5 year old buck +
Worth a shot. I think the snow pack will protect it through the cold. Do you cut it back every spring or does it just grow back.
Chainsaw
5 year old buck +
No we do not cut the MG back; the old stuff just falls away and the new growth just comes up thru it. Just need to deweed a small patch to test it. And I do believe the snow you get will protect it from the cold. We see it here with daylilies often. Ones that are not cold tolerant can grow ok here in years when there is snow cover. The sequence would be spray roundup. And put down weed cloth. Cover an area say 3 ft. By ten ft. asap. And in a month or so we dig up a clump and divide it. Plant it in a neat single row with a line cut thru the weed cloth. Once it comes back to life make the weed cloth less area wider and repeat as the plant looks to expand itself. It is worth a try with the prize being a great nursery to create a long screen when the timing is right for you.
Chainsaw
5 year old buck +
Yesterday I went down the driveway to my wife’s favorite apple tree planning to prune back a main branch so it might produce some usable scions next year. The tree normally produces more large apples than any single tree of the other two thousand released Apple trees on the property. It drops starting in July and continues on and on. Neither of us can recall when it stops dropping except that it is not in any way a late hanger. Still we see deer visit it everyday and would like to grow a bunch of them at each Apple thicket/food plot location.
The branch’s are dense and other than at the very top of the tree the scions are very short. Fruit spurs are seemingly everywhere. So while I’m trying to figure out which branch to prune, my eyes are directed to a branch that either winter killed or had a disease about six years ago. It had broken off and was stuck in among all the branches. There hiding right in front of me within easy reach were two four or five year old sucker branches with scions long and thick enough to use. The best had growth last year fifteen inches long with good thickness preceded by two year old wood around eight inches long. Cut them off at the two year old ring. Made my day.
This is a 2016 or 17 picture of wife Anne's favorite apple tree in bloom. It is the main tree closest to the camera left of center on the driveway point.
AND here is what it looked like later that summer--a definite keeper.
Anne's favorite apple tree is visible to us from our screen door and over the years we have seen many does bring their fawns to it. Again though this was yet another learning curve example. I remember well when that branch had died and I should have just naturally checked it for sucker growth when looking for scions. The new growth was right there all the time and finally it was just "discovered" yesterday.
The branch’s are dense and other than at the very top of the tree the scions are very short. Fruit spurs are seemingly everywhere. So while I’m trying to figure out which branch to prune, my eyes are directed to a branch that either winter killed or had a disease about six years ago. It had broken off and was stuck in among all the branches. There hiding right in front of me within easy reach were two four or five year old sucker branches with scions long and thick enough to use. The best had growth last year fifteen inches long with good thickness preceded by two year old wood around eight inches long. Cut them off at the two year old ring. Made my day.
This is a 2016 or 17 picture of wife Anne's favorite apple tree in bloom. It is the main tree closest to the camera left of center on the driveway point.
AND here is what it looked like later that summer--a definite keeper.
Anne's favorite apple tree is visible to us from our screen door and over the years we have seen many does bring their fawns to it. Again though this was yet another learning curve example. I remember well when that branch had died and I should have just naturally checked it for sucker growth when looking for scions. The new growth was right there all the time and finally it was just "discovered" yesterday.
Charles Clear
5 year old buck +
Wow that tree is beyond loaded!
sandbur
5 year old buck +
Do you have a cider press? Looks like you need one.
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Chainsaw
5 year old buck +
That has been fairly regular for that tree Charles.
Sandbur, a cider press almost made the get it done list this year but the late season fruit planting project beat it out.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Are the trees in the pics the ones you released? I see lots of trees blooming. That one tree has a gob of apples on it. Is it a good eater?
Chainsaw
5 year old buck +
Yes Bowsnbucks, all of the trees in the picture were originally engulfed in ash, maple, buckthorn and grapevines. They got released in 2005 when we cut the trees down to put the driveway in. We cut everything down except for the apple trees for about a forty yard wide swath. The grape Vines were the thickness of baseball bats and they connected the buck horns together such that it took cutting ten or twelve trunks completely thru before any trees would fall down. When they started to fall we would hit the ground and cover our faces as large numbers of trees would finally fall at once. We did get scratched up a bit in that maneuver but due to the grapevines holding everything together the falls were gentle. Once all of the non-apple trees were down the driveway foot print was laid out so the least amount of apple trees would need to be removed. Some of those remaining apple trees responded to their new daylight within one year but most took two or three to hit serious Apple production. The trees pictured are mostly about 62 years old.
We have never tasted an apple from that tree; While each day the deer go to that tree first of all of the driveway trees the apples themselves are messy and not orchard quality at all.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
It's amazing what sunlight will do to an apple tree once freed. We found that out at our camp. The one apple tree we daylighted is probably 60+ years old too. It's huge, and was surrounded - choked - by pines.
Chainsaw
5 year old buck +
It is amazing for sure. We’ve always figured that letting sunlight in to the wild Apple trees brought our biggest habitat management payback for the effort put forth.
Even at a modest six bushels produced per released tree per year, each released tree would yield about 250 pounds of fall attraction per year or 25,000 lbs per year per 100 trees released. Releasing 100 trees might take a full seven day week and in some cases two weeks, still an amazing return.
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Chainsaw
5 year old buck +
Winter returned to the north country over the last few days. Temps in the twenties at night made for easy morning traveling to all remote apple stands on the property. Was able to drive right over the top of the wet spots. By 10 am or so though even with temperatures below thirty the ground would thaw and try to suck the tractor down, with the backhoe on the tractor it rides low with not a lot of clearance so it gets stuck quickly. With 90%luck the tractor managed to get me out just in time with a few close calls of almost becoming buried but not. About 125 holes are now dug and bare root apple and pear tree planting will start in a few days weather permitting.
In digging all those holes, one thing became apparent. Wild apple trees can and do grow in some pretty poor looking soil; however the areas with the highest concentrations of wild apple trees had the nicest soil. As wet as the ground is the soil in the highest concentrations of wild apple trees was gorgeous, soft, mostly rock less and well drained. It didn’t stick in the tractor bucket when dumped, was dark, deep and had Just the right consistency so it fell out of the tractor bucket loosely and was not clumpy in any way, yet it was not sandy looking either. Additionally each wild apple tree seemed to sit on their own high spot, often just a foot or less higher than the general surrounding area, just enough so they weren’t sitting in water where there was water. It will be interesting to see how the to be planted trees react in the various type soils where they will be planted. The bulk of course will be planted in those good soil spots.
That left the rest of the day each day to practice grafting. Got to where practice grafts using 1/4 inch wood were coming out quite acceptable. Went to the real thing and a big oops! The rootstock measured 7/16 and most of the scions measured more like 3/16. This is making for some very challenging grafting for me. Not only is it more difficult to cut matching lengths with two different size sticks, the 7/16 is just plain physically harder to cut. This makes me think that buying rootstock in sizes of 1/8 thru 3/8 inch might work better for me in the future With most being in the 3/16 to 1/4 inch range. However would using smaller rootstocks though they matched better take longer to grow? Also does using larger rootstocks even though the cambium are matched up on only one edge grow faster? And how high up the rootstock stick can I make the graft, in other words is there an optimum distance over the roots that the graft should be made?
Can you experienced grafters advise me in choosing the best sizes of rootstock relative to the expected size of the scions to order in the future As well as the question of where to best attach the scion to the rootstock?
Thank You.
In digging all those holes, one thing became apparent. Wild apple trees can and do grow in some pretty poor looking soil; however the areas with the highest concentrations of wild apple trees had the nicest soil. As wet as the ground is the soil in the highest concentrations of wild apple trees was gorgeous, soft, mostly rock less and well drained. It didn’t stick in the tractor bucket when dumped, was dark, deep and had Just the right consistency so it fell out of the tractor bucket loosely and was not clumpy in any way, yet it was not sandy looking either. Additionally each wild apple tree seemed to sit on their own high spot, often just a foot or less higher than the general surrounding area, just enough so they weren’t sitting in water where there was water. It will be interesting to see how the to be planted trees react in the various type soils where they will be planted. The bulk of course will be planted in those good soil spots.
That left the rest of the day each day to practice grafting. Got to where practice grafts using 1/4 inch wood were coming out quite acceptable. Went to the real thing and a big oops! The rootstock measured 7/16 and most of the scions measured more like 3/16. This is making for some very challenging grafting for me. Not only is it more difficult to cut matching lengths with two different size sticks, the 7/16 is just plain physically harder to cut. This makes me think that buying rootstock in sizes of 1/8 thru 3/8 inch might work better for me in the future With most being in the 3/16 to 1/4 inch range. However would using smaller rootstocks though they matched better take longer to grow? Also does using larger rootstocks even though the cambium are matched up on only one edge grow faster? And how high up the rootstock stick can I make the graft, in other words is there an optimum distance over the roots that the graft should be made?
Can you experienced grafters advise me in choosing the best sizes of rootstock relative to the expected size of the scions to order in the future As well as the question of where to best attach the scion to the rootstock?
Thank You.
greyphase
5 year old buck +
I always specify 1/4 inch rootstock when I order. I personally don't think that the size of the rootstock makes any difference in how fast the tree will grow. I've grafted 6-8 inches above the roots of the rootstock with good success. With bigger rootstock and smaller scion a cleft graft with the cambium matching on one side works for me. Just my 2 cents worth. 
DrDirtNap
5 year old buck +
I just grafted several dolgo rootstock I received from Blue Hills. I bet some of those were 1/2 inch caliper. I used cleft grafts on all of those matched up to one side. Hope it works. That’s about all I could do with the size of the dolgo rootstock. I’ve used cleft grafts like this before but it seems to me when only one side matches up the healing process and subsequent scion growth is slower.
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chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
I used some 1/2" M111 a few years ago. I found cleft graft split in the rootstock could be difficult to close up and heal. I couldn't get enough pressure on it to close it up tight after the scion was pushed in. I tried shaping the wedge on the scions so they didn't make the cleft gape open so much. Eventually the scion could grow in and fill the gap but with a wet spring/summer, I found a number that got moldy in that split when I removed the grafting tape mid-summer. I tried whip and tongue on a few with just lining up the cambium on one side. Not my favorite graft technique but it did seem to work. My takeaway was to plant the big stuff in the nursery to bud graft or bark graft later and buy 1/4" rootstock.
