Apple planning phase.... - Transfered from QDMA forum
- Thread starter yoderjac
- Start date
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Native Hunter;847435 said:Jack, that one looks great. I have a Freedom about that size in my yard, and your leaves look a lot glossier and cleaner than my tree.
PS: I promised you some pictures of a decorative crab apple compared to a dolgo. I got those for you. The third pic is another crab that I don't know the variety of. It is even bigger than the dolgo at this point in time. I really like the looks of it.
These were taken in the last couple of days.
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
I should have mentioned. The picture I posted with the tiny crabapples on the last page was taken last week. When I was checking my trees, I noticed the Japanese beetles were starting to hit both my chestnut and crabapple trees. I mixed up some permethrin and was spraying the trees as I went along. It is amazing how well and how long that stuff works.Native Hunter;847435 said:
At any rate that tree had just been sprayed which accounts for the clean glossy leaves. They were actually just wet.
Thanks,
Jack
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
I'm now starting on next years crop. I've been working with an orchard/ciderworks that sells apples but not their crabapples. They were kind enough to sell me a few crabs for seed. I extracted the seed and placed the in the fridge with damp long-fiber sphagnum for a month. Here is what I'm starting with:
Wickson Crab (diploid)
Suncrisp (diploid)
Winesap (triploid)
Arkansas Black (triploid)
My initial thought was to work with crabapple seeds since some crabapples seem truer to seed (like Dolgo) than most domestic apples. When I talked to the lady at the orchard, she suggested that since I was experimenting from seed I should try to triploid as well. Most of the research papers I've read suggest I'm probably wasting my time with triplod apple seeds. They say most are deformed because of the uneven combination of chromosomes. Of course triploid apples are a genetic abnormality that seems to advantage the trees, but while genes are passed on, the combinations are generally negative. So, I'm expecting that most of the triploid seeds that germinate and produce seedlings will likely be culled.
I plan to use the diploid for field planting. Some I may grow out and see what I get, others I may top-work with known varieties. Today I planed all the seeds that have been chilling for a month. I still have some Jonathan (diploid) seeds that I just put in the fridge. I'll probably plant those in a month.
I planted them all in mesh flats in promix. Any that germinate and begin to grow will be transplanted into 18s.
Thanks,
Jack
Wickson Crab (diploid)
Suncrisp (diploid)
Winesap (triploid)
Arkansas Black (triploid)
My initial thought was to work with crabapple seeds since some crabapples seem truer to seed (like Dolgo) than most domestic apples. When I talked to the lady at the orchard, she suggested that since I was experimenting from seed I should try to triploid as well. Most of the research papers I've read suggest I'm probably wasting my time with triplod apple seeds. They say most are deformed because of the uneven combination of chromosomes. Of course triploid apples are a genetic abnormality that seems to advantage the trees, but while genes are passed on, the combinations are generally negative. So, I'm expecting that most of the triploid seeds that germinate and produce seedlings will likely be culled.
I plan to use the diploid for field planting. Some I may grow out and see what I get, others I may top-work with known varieties. Today I planed all the seeds that have been chilling for a month. I still have some Jonathan (diploid) seeds that I just put in the fridge. I'll probably plant those in a month.
I planted them all in mesh flats in promix. Any that germinate and begin to grow will be transplanted into 18s.
Thanks,
Jack
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Yes. I guess I have not captured everything I've done in this thread. It talks about the trees I grew from seed and my experience grafting them. Before I grafted them, I took a grafting class last spring. As part of that class I got some Arkansas Black, Black Twig, and Virginia (Hewes) Crab. I grafted them to M111 root stock last spring. M111 is best adapted for our soil of the clonal root stock. I grew them out in 3 gal rootbuilder II containers on my deck this summer. Earlier this month, I planted them in the field.
I enjoyed the grafting class so much, I'm planning to take it again this coming spring. I also ordered a number of scions from trees I want to try. I'll probably graft those to M111 next spring and grow them out again on my deck next summer.
Thanks,
Jack
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
Well, I checked them tonight and ended up transplanting 20 apple tree seedlings from the flats into 18s. The Wickson Crab which are diploids had at least 18 ready for transplant. There are a few tiny green spots but I figured I'd stop at an even tray tonight. At the same time I planted the Wickson Crab seeds in flats, I also planted a flat of a mix of triploid apple seeds. There was roughly the same number of seeds in each flat. There were only 2 that germinated. Both happened to be Winesap. So far, they appear to be normal.
One thing that surprised me is how quickly these need to be transplanted from flats to 18s. Some were barely visible but had tap roots almost to the bottom of the flat.
Here is a picture of the tray of Wickson:
Thanks,
Jack
One thing that surprised me is how quickly these need to be transplanted from flats to 18s. Some were barely visible but had tap roots almost to the bottom of the flat.
Here is a picture of the tray of Wickson:
Thanks,
Jack
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yoderjac
5 year old buck +
What a difference a day makes. I checked the flats this morning. I ended up transplanting another full try (18) of the diploid Wickson. There was only one more of the triploid to transplant and it happened to be a Suncrisp. This try looks just like the last, so there is no reason to post another picture.
I'm going to post the details of the How To but I think I'll start a new thread for that.
Thanks,
Jack
I'm going to post the details of the How To but I think I'll start a new thread for that.
Thanks,
Jack
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
I think the Wickson are about done but the triploids are still having a few germinate.
The count of seedlings as of tonight:
Diploid (all Wickson Crab): 54
Triploid Total: 11
Winesap: 4
Suncrisp: 5
Arkansas Black: 2
Latest pic of some Wickson:
Thanks,
Jack
The count of seedlings as of tonight:
Diploid (all Wickson Crab): 54
Triploid Total: 11
Winesap: 4
Suncrisp: 5
Arkansas Black: 2
Latest pic of some Wickson:
Thanks,
Jack
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yoderjac
5 year old buck +
I came home from the farm tonight and got quite a shock. I had 1 more Wickson (which has to be very close to 100% germination) ready to transplant. I had a few Suncrisp ready, but for some reason, a more recently planted tray of winesap just exploded. After tonight's transplanting, I have about 3 trays of Wickson (diploid) and 3 trays of triploids. I did plant over twice as many triploid in the flats, but I didn't expect the triploid germination to be even close to 50%. At the rate things are going, I'll have many more seedlings than I can handle even with culling. I'll try to do exact counts of each type when I get a chance and report back.
