Apple experts .., two pruning questions
- Thread starter sandbur
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sandbur
5 year old buck +
2. Many of my trees get such a fruit load on the central leader that they are permanently tipped to horizontal. I can’t reach them to manually thin the fruit. Sevin? If Sevin, do I have too spray the area I cannot reach or does it work systemically?
Do I need to prune differently?
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Do I need to prune differently?
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Prof.Kent
5 year old buck +
All fruit trees can benefit from a good pruning. But if they are trees for the deer I would prune only every other year. For mature trees make a few LARGE cuts to open up the tree's interior. And remove any crossing limbs. Pruning every limb is too time consuming if you have a lot of trees to prune. Easiest and quickest to just remove a few large limbs . Never remove over 30% of live vegetation in one year.
Prof.Kent
5 year old buck +
I've had several columular trees grow too tall to pick. Sometimes the central leader will pull itself down to become a lateral branch under the weight of the fruit. Often it just breaks. Sometimes it is best to cut the central leader back "hard" (i.e., several feet) to a weak (small) side lateral branch. This will usually slow the central leader growth a lot. Take a video of the before-and-after pruning cut and compare it to its future self in 3 or 4 years. See how it has changed, if any (sometimes it just regrows straight up again). Some trees can be changed from their natural growth pattern, other are really stubborn!
Appleman
5 year old buck +
My approach is quite different in pruning technique between my commercial orchard and apple trees for wildlife plantings. In my commercial orchard, which is now mostly bearing, I cut more out the intermediate tiers out (larger branches) on my B118 rootstock to increase spacing. Removal of an entire large branch slows down renewed growth as opposed to a systematic removal of terminal growth (small shoots and branches). I continue to support developing a modified central leade,r but once the tree gets beyond the reach for harvesting I aggressively head back to a workable height. Keep in mind the practice of topping a tree releases the growth hormone auxin which activates growth producing suckering. Spreading of branches is key to encouraging fruit production and is a good practice to get into (see photo
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Sevin (carbaryl) when sprayed is absorbed into the set fruit and deprives the newly set fruit of needed carbohydrates. The larger king blossom fruit is resistant to sevin but is most effective in of the fruitlets. In years of a heavy fruit set I spray sevin just after fruit set and depending on weather conditions (temp and precipitation) I adjust additional sprays accordingly. Sevin is most effective up to about 1/2 inch/13 mm in fruit size.
For my apple trees for wildlife I remove the lowest tier to the height of the browse line once the trees are large enough to do so. I still prefer to tier distance to allow enough spacing to encourage fruit development to the interior. This also helps to encourage annual bearing with some varieties like honeycrisp.
. Sevin (carbaryl) when sprayed is absorbed into the set fruit and deprives the newly set fruit of needed carbohydrates. The larger king blossom fruit is resistant to sevin but is most effective in of the fruitlets. In years of a heavy fruit set I spray sevin just after fruit set and depending on weather conditions (temp and precipitation) I adjust additional sprays accordingly. Sevin is most effective up to about 1/2 inch/13 mm in fruit size.
For my apple trees for wildlife I remove the lowest tier to the height of the browse line once the trees are large enough to do so. I still prefer to tier distance to allow enough spacing to encourage fruit development to the interior. This also helps to encourage annual bearing with some varieties like honeycrisp.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
I'm certainly no expert. I can only share what I've done with ours and the results. I've pruned our All-Winter-Hangover, Chestnut, Dolgo, Centennial, and Nova Scotia crabs like regular apples, and used limb spreaders to grow good crotch angles. They've grown pretty well and have the "central leader" frame to them. They are deer trees so I won't go crazy on them - the oldest is only 5th leaf this year. I wanted to get a decent framework established so air & sun can get in to the center of the trees. Now that the basic shape is established, I'll only prune out crossing/rubbing limbs, damaged limbs, vertical water sprouts, etc. as Prof. Kent said in post #3.
I haven't had any central leaders loaded to the point of tipping over. The apples we have had have been on the scaffold limbs mostly. I have to defer to Maya who has told me to not prune the leader so the trees get taller and out of deer reach. From what I've seen of crabs vs. regular apple trees, crabs seem to be more "limb-y" by nature, so I don't scalp them. I've seen pictures of guys' crabs on here that have many limbs and they put on good loads of fruit. I've never gotten close to 30% prune-out on our crabs - more like 10 to 15%.
I haven't had any central leaders loaded to the point of tipping over. The apples we have had have been on the scaffold limbs mostly. I have to defer to Maya who has told me to not prune the leader so the trees get taller and out of deer reach. From what I've seen of crabs vs. regular apple trees, crabs seem to be more "limb-y" by nature, so I don't scalp them. I've seen pictures of guys' crabs on here that have many limbs and they put on good loads of fruit. I've never gotten close to 30% prune-out on our crabs - more like 10 to 15%.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Appleman - What would you consider good tier spacing for wildlife trees ?? How far between scaffolds ??
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
Boone, I'd cut everything off below the top of the cage except for the top most 3 side limbs. Then choose a leader and cut off the other 2. Then score above buds on the central leader to promote branching of it. I marked up a screenshot of your photo. Red X - remove. Poorly drawn pink arrows - keep. I'm not sure which of the 3 competing leaders is the best but I'd remove 2.
Prof.Kent
5 year old buck +
If you top the tree aggressively in the summer, does the tree still try to produce water sprouts? If so, when? Late summer or next year?
I have only topped my trees in winter.
Also, that secondary trunk on the left is a disaster-in-waiting.As well as the one on the right (lower) once the left one is removed.
Those low branches that are 1/2 to 3/4 diameter of the trunk become secondary trunks in time.
I have only topped my trees in winter.
Agree with Chickenlittle!
Also, that secondary trunk on the left is a disaster-in-waiting.As well as the one on the right (lower) once the left one is removed.
Those low branches that are 1/2 to 3/4 diameter of the trunk become secondary trunks in time.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
I looked at your tree pic first to make my own decision on what to cut / keep. Then I looked down at Chickenlittle's suggestions and we both agree 100%. Chickenlittle's been at this longer than me and I wanted to see if my thoughts would be close to his. They were. The big shoot coming off down low on the left would be the 1st to go. Chickenlittle's red x's are how I've pruned our camp trees and they've shot up and done well. And scoring the leader will make new limbs form from the buds you score above.
Prof. Kent's thoughts on the low limbs becoming trunks eventually are spot on.
As for the top 3 shoots - I usually keep the uppermost one on the leader if it's the straightest and most vigorous. I'd cut the other 2 off and score just above a few buds that are over 5 ft. above the ground. New limbs will grow out from those buds and become the lowest scaffolds on the tree in another year or 2.
Prof. Kent's thoughts on the low limbs becoming trunks eventually are spot on.
As for the top 3 shoots - I usually keep the uppermost one on the leader if it's the straightest and most vigorous. I'd cut the other 2 off and score just above a few buds that are over 5 ft. above the ground. New limbs will grow out from those buds and become the lowest scaffolds on the tree in another year or 2.
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
I also like the advice from Cummins Nursery gave at their pruning workshop that any pruning is better than no pruning. Better to do something than worry about being right or wrong or perfect.
To Sanbur's first question, i am pruning my young apples and crabs the same. I expect to prune both less as they mature, fewer big cuts instead of many small cuts.
To Sanbur's first question, i am pruning my young apples and crabs the same. I expect to prune both less as they mature, fewer big cuts instead of many small cuts.
Appleman
5 year old buck +
Pruning trees is like a game of chess. You need to think 20 or moves ahead picturing what you wish to achieve down the road. Strategy has it different moves can still produce a win. I personally would save the second central leader on the left because I like the structure of it with some fairly nice branches already started. In any case as long as you have the plant material to work with (tree structure) the possibilities are endless and mistakes can be easily corrected. 
For my grouse crabapples like red splendor I just trim the crossing branches and watershoots. I think having a thick, nasty crabapple benefits grouse and pheasants when they eat the fruit. In theory the extra branches could protect them from hawks more than a tree that was trimmed heavily with lots of openings. My pruning plan might not be grounded in reality though, but I've never let that stop me before.
I trim the rest of my larger crabapples and standard apples heavier so there more light and air circulation on the fruit. And I also trim to remove poor branch angles so they can hold the extra weight of heavy fruit loads in the future.
sandbur
5 year old buck +
Just. What I do. Flowering crabs are pretty much left alone.
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