Anybody ever use a habitat consultant?

[Freeborn]

A few recommendations I would have for the small group get-togethers. Have a hand-out with a map and and list of questions you are trying to get answered and goals you are trying to achieve for the day. Provide a pen/pencel with the handout with a tear sheet each participant will give back to you with their ideas or reference information (type shrub/tree, vendor recommendations etc.).

After the meeting start a thread with your map and take aways from the meeting and continue the discussion.

 

[j-bird]

Bryant, to be honest I am happy with the bucks we have taken recently (3.5 & 4.5 year old) they will score 140"+/-. I don't consider these monsters at least not in my area. They are good deer, but I know my area grows bigger ones. My property isn't holdig these bucks we are taking currently - and I just lack the physical cover needed to be successful in doing so. Some of the things I hope to have answered are things like - "is this as good as it's going to get" and "what can I do to ensure I can remain at this level or even do better"? I also need to adjust my hunting patterns to best take advantage of what I have and what I am trying to accomplish based on the limitations I have. I am not unhappy with where I am - I am simply trying to improve. It has taken me 10+ years to get to this point - I don't want to loose what I have, but I also don't want another 10 to 15 years of tryimg to figure out the next steps as well. I think Steve and his experiance is just what I am looking for. I will more than likely look at additional opinions as well, but starting with someone of Steve's caliber is a great place for me to start. Once Steve has done his thing I may start up a thread like Freeborn suggests.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

Very short on time, but wanted to toss this out there real quick...WiscWhip and anyone else, yes, please feel free to use that questionnaire for personal use. That's exactly why I posted it, hoping it would help some of you consider some things you may not have in the past, as you formulate your own plans (or buy a property, for that matter...One thing not listed, make SURE you will have good, low impact access routes on new purchases or that you could create it...That'd make my top 5 list of most important considerations).

Thanks for the overly kind words to Art, MNFISH and WiscWhip. Frankly, they're a bit humbling.

Finally, I want to reiterate my words of caution regarding hiring a consultant. I just picked up another photo eval client while in unit 222. How? He's a friend of the property owner and stopped over to share his frustrations. He was so disgusted with a plan that he'd had done by another consultant that he is having me try to give him a do over. I know writing that risks making me look like the biggest self serving jerkwad to ever walk, but I don't care. I consider the majority of you guys (and Shelly) friends on one level or another (I've picked up things from way more of you than you'll ever realize and I place tremendous value/appreciation on learning).

PLEASE, check references and make 100% sure that the references aren't greenhorns. It doesn't matter how many books someone may have wrote, how long they've been doing this or how many clients they've had. If they can't provide at least 5 references of VERY serious and skilled habitat manager clients (I'm talking on the level of most of you guys and Shelly), run the other way. In this, as in any other niche, inexperienced people are MUCH more easily baffled by BS and shiny rocks than those with real experience. There is NOTHING wrong with being inexperienced. We all were at one time or another, but their references don't necessarily mean much. One can debate either side of if a good consultation is worth it, and I believe there is validity to both sides of that debate and that the "right" choice will vary on a host of factors. One can't debate if a rushed, sloppy job by a BS artist is worth it. It's not and you'll likely be every bit as POed as this guy was.

Also, check to see how much of this they've actually done themselves. Walking a ton of properties and telling others what to do can be helpful in the learning curve, but is nothing at all like actually doing the work yourself on a wide variety of property types. It's WAY too easy to tell others what to do and then lead them to believe that it didn't work because they did something wrong. Even when you have done things on a bunch of different properties, there will be times when things don't work. If you're taking advice from someone that's never actually done the work in a setting similar to yours (or has only actually done the work on a couple different properties over the years), the odds of it not working will be soooooooo much higher.

Sorry for this rant. If that turned you people off enough to never want to buy anything from me again, so be it. I'm OK with that, so long as you take what I just wrote to heart. I'm sick of seeing plans like I did the other day and sincerely good people that merely want to improve their hunting sold an extremely over priced load of crap like that. It REALLY bugs me, as that could have easily been me 25ish years ago, and no one deserves that. This stuff is supposed to be fun, NOT make you feel like a 2 bit sucker that's just been played.

/end rant (I promise)

 

[wiscwhip]

Good post Steve. This is one reason why it is good to have a "field day" or 2 on your place with a few guys who have some habitat experience before you make any big changes. If someone makes a suggestion you can kind of get a feel from others on whether or not it seems like a good idea or not or if it would be more beneficial to go another route. Pick the most bang for the buck from many opinions. Chaff from the grain, so to speak.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

Agreed, Whip. I think j-bird is proposing a good move above, in having you guys review the plan I eventually provide him with. If a plan can't stand up to the thoughts/opinions of others, it's probably not worth anything, anyway. He posted images of his property a while back on QDMA. If memory serves correct, it will be a good one to do that on, as it offers several challenges to overcome (access being a big one) and offers a good degree of diversity.

Field days, input from others from places like this, they're both great. I can't even imagine how much faster my learning curve would have been accelerated if we had resources like this 25-30 years ago. You can complain up a storm about life these days and yearn longingly for "the good ol days," but life "today" offers some tremendous educational advantages, for those that want to take advantage of them.

 

[Trapper LM]

U

Before you go that far, have you ever had a "field day" at your place with some local trusted habitat "gurus" like the guys on this site. I have been to a few "land visits" and there are always a ton of good suggestions thrown around. There is something to be said about a "fresh set of eyes to think outside the box". You wouldn't actually have to act on any of the suggestions if you didn't think they fit your needs, but it would give you a good idea of what other guys might do in your situation.

Before you go that far, have you ever had a "field day" at your place with some local trusted habitat "gurus" like the guys on this site. I have been to a few "land visits" and there are always a ton of good suggestions thrown around. There is something to be said about a "fresh set of eyes to think outside the box". You wouldn't actually have to act on any of the suggestions if you didn't think they fit your needs, but it would give you a good idea of what other guys might do in your situation.

Exactly what Wip said.
I have gone to numerous places and have recommended certain things that the owners implemented. Only to have them visit my property and have them point out the obvious to me.

 

[Bluecollaroutdoors]

Jbird did you end up having Steve do a photo eval for you?

 

[H20fwler]

Before I started making changes on my farm I talked with the USGS and the state NRCS Biologist then worked out a plan with wetland ponds/tree plantings/native grass/shrub plantings and what I needed to do to remove some invasive plants.

 

[Bluecollaroutdoors]

Sorry this is two years old. Maybe I should have asked in a private message. I am throwing around the idea of the photo eval from Steve again. A personnal visit from any of the names that would be recommended I simply cannot afford.

Even Steve recommended getting some reviews from previous customers before hiring anyone to do anything. That was my intention.

 

[Bszweda]

Didn't you just answer you own question? "I just lack the physical cover needed to be successful in doing so". I'd try to figure out how to get the physical cover that would attract a mature buck. I personally like Jim Wards approach, because it seems practical.

 

[Bluecollaroutdoors]

On second thought I am not sorry I brought his thread back to life as some of the most useful threads are the followups years later. " What did you do or didn't do, and is it creating any results or changes?"

Jbird can you provide any details on what you ended up doing? I always find your posts detailed and informative, but feel free to tell me to zip it if you want :)

 

[Bill]

I wouldn't want to speak for J-bird so I won't. But I can speak for myself. I've been at this (habitat manipulation) for about 10 years. I just had to go to Tony L's boot camp. Not because I was looking for the magic potion but rather to see what the fuss about. I figured if guys were ready to fist fight for and against his methods there was something there.

It was interesting and I learned some new tricks. But I chose "not" to apply about 90% of his techniques. In the end I'm glad I went and don't feel like it was a waste of $.

I was fortunate to be able to tag along at a friends place when Jeff Stugis came to do a walk through. Again an interesting day where I learned some things. Maybe better, it reinforced some of the things I was already doing.

I paid Steve for a photo evaluation about 2 years ago. My motive in doing so wasn't to get a grand plan. (Though he did give me one) For me it was more to have someone with a trained eye confirm what I was doing was correct or not. Steve liked some of my improvements and wasn't afraid to tell me what he didn't like. Nice guy and I picked up even more tricks.

Some people view habitat consultants as snake oil salesmen. I get that, but I've never thought of them like that. For me, the bottom line is, if a guy can feed his family in such a niche industry I can't write off what I could learn from them. I spent 3 times the cost of Steve's service on seed last year. 2 times the cost on a new bow.

In the the end lets just say he gets my endorsement. Is he going to teach you anything you can't learn on your own reading sites like this? Probably not. But what you won't get on sites like this is how to put all those things together in a flow that makes sense for your property. Sure there are guys that have been at this for years and wouldn't need that because they have been at it for so long. But if it's your first rodeo $500 ain't squat compared to really screwing up.

 

[j-bird]

I have not. I always seem to have other things that are a higher priority. I respect the work that Steve bartylla, Jeff Sturgis and Jim ward do but I just struggle to justify it. It's not that I think I am smarter than they are its just a lot of money and to be honest there is only so much we can do with a property based on terrain and other limitations as it is. My biggest fear is two fold - either I am told I am way wrong and they suggest making huge changes that I don't have the resources for or secondly they look at me and say - Yep, you are doing just what I would have done. I think I would be much better off doing a property tour of a handful of folks and getting a "second opinion" or other "ideas" that way. I had a visit with a member here set up but the weather didn't cooperate with traveling so we had to postpone.

I know some folks really like a consultant and have had great success with them. I just have never mustered up the funds to have one come out. The cost of one to come to my place would be about a years budget of what I spend on habitat stuff. Some may say it will be worth it in the long run...... I just don't know.

 

[Bluecollaroutdoors]

Thank you for the feedback Jbird. I can see your thought process.

If I was killing what you are now I wouldn't be asking these questions. Insert sad puppy dog face. Good luck the rest of the season if you are still getting out.

 

[tylorklein]

Hopefully this is enough related to this discussion - I just scheduled the forester visit to 40 acres I am buying next week in order to create my stewardship plan. The land is in central MN and having the plan prepared is subsidized by the state and also can get reduced tax treatment. What I am wondering is if anyone has specific recommendations on things to ask about during the site visit? I think some of the things from the list Steve posted are pretty relevant, so will adapt those to some questions, but figured people might have something that isn't obvious they were glad they did / wish they had asked or discussed during a similar process.

Thanks,

 

[j-bird]

I will say that talking to your local natural resource folks or other professionals is always a good idea - just keep in mind that many of them focus on their area of expertise and NOT always what you are trying to accomplish so please keep that in mind. To be honest I have disregarded as much info from those folks as I have used. It about what YOU want to accomplish so always keep that in mind!

 

[j-bird]

Thank you for the feedback Jbird. I can see your thought process.

If I was killing what you are now I wouldn't be asking these questions. Insert sad puppy dog face. Good luck the rest of the season if you are still getting out.

i still have work to do.....that's why I am here....just like most of us. I do ok for my area.

 

[bwoods11]

The best property in our county was created by accident. It was 280 acres in which about 80 was good cover and water. The balance was marginal tillable which was put into CRP. In order to get a higher score on the CRP, pine and spruce plantings were required. The guy planted the trees as part of the CRP. In the first year the trees were declared "planting failure" by the MN DNR..ha ha ....Anyway

Low and behold almost all the spruce and pine survived and now they have the largest block of thermal cover in the county. It is a truly amazing property. They added food plots in the past 5 years, they shoot 150-160 inch bucks with regularity and find 30-50 shed antlers (in MN)!!

Every time I drive by that farm, my inner habitat consultant tells me what to do??

That is all I can add. I think Steve or other habitat consultants can help, but in some cases, it is just a matter of planting trees, habitat, food plots, hinge cutting, etc....that info is all out there. Some trial and error of course.

 

[Tree Spud]

The best property in our county was created by accident. It was 280 acres in which about 80 was good cover and water. The balance was marginal tillable which was put into CRP. In order to get a higher score on the CRP, pine and spruce plantings were required. The guy planted the trees as part of the CRP. In the first year the trees were declared "planting failure" by the MN DNR..ha ha ....Anyway

Low and behold almost all the spruce and pine survived and now they have the largest block of thermal cover in the county. It is a truly amazing property. They added food plots in the past 5 years, they shoot 150-160 inch bucks with regularity and find 30-50 shed antlers (in MN)!!

Every time I drive by that farm, my inner habitat consultant tells me what to do??

That is all I can add. I think Steve or other habitat consultants can help, but in some cases, it is just a matter of planting trees, habitat, food plots, hinge cutting, etc....that info is all out there. Some trial and error of course.

Too many people think there is a silver bullet type solution. Food, water, and lots of thermal cover ... and passing on the smaller bucks ;)

 

[bueller]

Too many people think there is a silver bullet type solution. Food, water, and lots of thermal cover ... and passing on the smaller bucks ;)

Don't forget neighborhood...