Another mold question

ncstewart

5 year old buck +
My DCO are having bad mold problems. I have done everything by the book so was planning on just direct seeding them now instead of cleaning them weekly. Is this thinking a waste of time or y'all think I will be ok direct seeding?
Also I have tons of other stuff from Apple to chestnuts to sawtooths in the same fridge with no problems other than the DCO.


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My DCO are having bad mold problems. I have done everything by the book so was planning on just direct seeding them now instead of cleaning them weekly. Is this thinking a waste of time or y'all think I will be ok direct seeding?
Also I have tons of other stuff from Apple to chestnuts to sawtooths in the same fridge with no problems other than the DCO.


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While there are a few things we can do to slow the spread of mold (I'm sure you've done them), the real issue is exposure to mold. You can find one set of nuts that had exposure at the collection source to be a real problem and another which was not exposed mold free. So, don't kick yourself. It may not be your fault.

Another option is to put them in 18s in a xl bag and put them back in the fridge. I find I have less mold issues when nuts are in media. Also, mold won't move from nut to nut when they are in individual cells. This lets the tap root get started but prevents top growth. You can take the tray out of the fridge when you are ready to start top growth.

This thread shows what I did: http://www.habitat-talk.com/index.p...ct-posts-from-a-qdma-thread.5602/#post-109303

Thanks,

Jack
 
Very few people on the forums I've seen over the years have had good luck with raising dco nuts using rootmaker. The people that have had the best luck have direct planted in the fall and protected the nut using tubes or other means. Dco seem to mold easier inside a fridge and they don't seem to respond as well as other trees to the rootmaker system. I'd skip the hoopla and plant them in the spring using the tub method I described. If it's warm enough there now get some in the ground now too.

Maybe I was lucky. Blitz showed the direct seeding method on the old forum. He seemed to be the biggest proponent and had the most experience. He suggested that folks should see about 9" of top-growth by the end of the first growing season. As you can see from the pictures on the thread that I posted the link to that mine have far exceeded that in one growing season.

I would not say that they are not well adapted to the rootmaker system. I would say that they require a different technique than chestnuts or other nuts that need cold stratified. DCO don't require cold stratification to germinate. Like Allegheny Chinquapins, they will produce a root radicle in the fall. The root radicle begins to grow over winter and top growth starts when temperatures warm up in the spring.

The technique that worked well for me was simulating this natural process with vernalization. Rather than trying to delay germination until you want to plant them which just gives mold time to take hold, I just planted them in RMs and put the tray in an XL bag and put them in the fridge for a couple months. This is no different than nature except that you can wake them up early and put them under lights.

IMG_20160913_192444106Crop_zpszte2zlac.jpg


These are much larger than 9" in one growing season, some a couple feet. There is nothing wrong with direct seeding them in the fall, but I would not say they don't take to the RM container system well. They simply need an approach the fits them which is different than the approach for chestnuts and other nuts and seeds that require cold stratification.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Every nut that germinated grew. I can't recall what my germination rate was, but it would be the same regardless of method. A guy on one of the fruit tree forums bought DCO nuts to grow. He ended up with more nuts than he could use and sold me his leftovers. I only started with a few nuts. I can't recall, but I think it was around 30 or so. You may be able to dig it up on one of my old threads.

I don't at all disagree with you that direct seeding is a viable alternative. Both methods have advantages and disadvantages. Direct seeding gives you a full tap root which may be beneficial in some climates verses root pruning. I think a root pruning container system is the best way to go if you want to go with containers, but direct seeding has no issues with circling or j-hooking and no transplant shock. It can work out well, but it also has disadvantages. In nature, there are tens of thousands of nuts (or perhaps even more) for every quality tree that grows and produces. You can stack the odds in your favor a bit by planting the nut at the proper depth and protecting it, but there is not much room for culling.

When I grow indoors, I find that some nuts just don't produce vigorous trees. There is no difference in care from the nut next to it that really takes off and grows great. Some trees are just winners. Others are duds. In nature, the duds are culled because they can't compete. When we direct seed, we remove that competition to boost our tree growth, but if the tree is a dud it lives with our help but never flourishes. Growing indoors allows me to start with many more nuts. I can cull as I see fit based on seedling growth and performance.

There is no doubt growing indoors under lights has high setup and time costs. The setup cost can be amortized over many years. My cost per tree is now quite low, however, I've been doing this for a number of years and will continue for at least several more years. The real issue is time. For me it is a cure for cabin fever and I enjoy it as a hobby, so I count my time as a labor of love. There is a lot of satisfaction in it. For a guy just wanting a few trees for attraction, direct seeding or just buying bare root trees may be a better bet.

Another consideration is your soils. In my case, with poor soil, growth is very slow. I've direct seeded trees and they are dwarfed by my rootmaker trees. That may not be the case in an area with fertile soils. Starting trees indoors may have less benefit in areas with longer growing seasons. I know matt in Tx likes using root pruning containers but waits and starts his trees outdoors. He has a much longer growing season than I do in 7A. Most trees do need a rest, so you can only extend that growing season so long. I'm still working on finding the optimal formula for my area.

I'm not arguing that growing indoors with Rootmakers is better than direct seeding for everyone. Both methods have advantages and disadvantages and folks need to figure out what works best with their objectives and situation. I'm simply saying that there is nothing that I've found with DCO that makes them not respond well to the rootmaker container system.

I will caveat this with the fact that this is my first attempt with DCOs and have not seen them in the field a few years down the road. I do have chestnuts that have been growing in the field for a number of years now. They do slow significantly when they are transplanted into my native soils, but the direct seeded chestnuts are not close to catching up. I'll keep reporting back on the DCOs and let folks know how they perform after a few years in the field.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Jack,

I have 4 trays of DCO acorns (from blitz on old forum) in media in fridge covered with large bags

How often and how do you monitor moisture? Same as your "weight method?"

How do you water ,if needed?

thanks,

bill
 
Bill,

I planted mine in 18s and 32s in promix bx. I watered the trays like normal. Once they stopped draining, I put the trays in Extra Large ziploc bags. The bags don't close, I just let one end open. I then put them in the fridge. At this point, we are just trying to get the nuts to germinate and produce a root radicle. They need to have moisture to germinate but don't really use much water until top growth starts and that doesn't happen in the fridge. The zip lock bag holds in moisture very well. Refrigerators tend to dehumidify. The Ziploc bag helps prevent this.

I checked them every few weeks. I think I only had to water them once the entire time they were in the fridge. I simply took them out and watered them normally. Once they stopped draining, I put them back in the bag and returned them to the fridge. They really don't seem to need much when they are in the fridge. Once I was ready to put them under lights, I simply took them out and treated them as any other tree. The only thing I did differently was to transplant the ones in 32s into 18s after they showed good top growth. I simply like 18s better because I can rearrange cells in the express trays. The only reason I used 32s when I did was to save room in the fridge.

Thanks,

Jack
 
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