hillrunner
5 year old buck +
Reading this thread has me liking Iowa more and more.
A story of frustration, and a less than awesome solution
- Thread starter roymunson
- Start date
BenAllgood
5 year old buck +
Baiting or not, you can't hold bucks on your property and expect them to stay. You can make your property a place they know is safe and they may spend more time there. You can have a ton of corn in the middle of your 40 acres and that is not going to protect those bucks that use it from getting killed. He's going to move, that's just his nature.
roymunson
5 year old buck +
wont work in October like food dumped in cover
BenAllgood
5 year old buck +
Where are bucks visible at in daylight in the late summer? Food
Where are bucks visible at in daylight in the rut? Looking for does that are in Food
Where are bucks visible at in daylight in the late season? Food
Make your food Secure. It won't keep the bucks corralled there, but it will keep them around maybe just enough.
Where are bucks visible at in daylight in the rut? Looking for does that are in Food
Where are bucks visible at in daylight in the late season? Food
Make your food Secure. It won't keep the bucks corralled there, but it will keep them around maybe just enough.
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MadMadHoosier
5 year old buck +
We should sell our big farms and buy 10 acres next door to someone like us!
We run a lot of cameras in Mexico on very large acreage. It is common to see bucks in summer stay in a very small area even around one protein feeder. Almost to the day they shed velvet we have seen them move as much as 4 miles...not influenced by the rut or anything obvious.No significant differences in habitat.They just shift where they live. Then after several weeks some of them move back to the vicinity of their summer range. Others don't move back till after the rut. We have recorded much greater movement than that on some bucks but 4-5 miles is common
Corn and bait are very effective especially as stated above. Easy to kill the 1 and 2 yr olds. But deer especially bucks move a lot more than many understand irrespective of baiting rut or anything else.
The primary advantage of a game fence is the 'opportunity' to allow deer to age and create conditions more reflective of what a unmolested herd.
Corn and bait are very effective especially as stated above. Easy to kill the 1 and 2 yr olds. But deer especially bucks move a lot more than many understand irrespective of baiting rut or anything else.
The primary advantage of a game fence is the 'opportunity' to allow deer to age and create conditions more reflective of what a unmolested herd.
Triple C
5 year old buck +
Many of us feel the same. After 10 years of managing just under 300 acres, I've given up on the notion that we can pass 3.5 yr olds and think we're going to get em to 4, 5 or older. 4 month firearms season in GA lends itself to killing a pile of 1.5 and 2.5 yr old bucks. We pass the 2.5 yr olds and lose most of what we pass to neighbors. But, that's hunting in GA. Finally came to conclusion to enjoy the journey with no fretting over thinking we can manage for mature bucks on 287 acres. When the occasional 3.5 or older bucks pass thru, we just hope we're in the stand. And I'm surrounded by large tract landowners.
30 miles away at my residence of 56 acres, we have a much better chance of killing a 4.5 or older simply because of the lack of hunting pressure in the area. No clubs or leases anywhere near us. Private landowners that in many cases, don't hunt and don't allow hunting. But...I love my farm and almost always prefer hunting there, along with all of the habitat work that we put in to it.
30 miles away at my residence of 56 acres, we have a much better chance of killing a 4.5 or older simply because of the lack of hunting pressure in the area. No clubs or leases anywhere near us. Private landowners that in many cases, don't hunt and don't allow hunting. But...I love my farm and almost always prefer hunting there, along with all of the habitat work that we put in to it.
Bill Loser
5 year old buck +
Baiting, planting food crops, whats the difference? We do them both to draw deer to us. And to try to keep them near to us. The only real difference is corn piles get dumped and plots get planted.
I dont think its fair to assume the neighbors are killing "my" deer just because it came off of my land. If they are happy with the deer they shoot more power to them. Some people arent trophy hunters, hell I'm not. I plant food to draw deer, and i shoot what will make me happy. Never have regretted pulling the trigger.
I dont think its fair to assume the neighbors are killing "my" deer just because it came off of my land. If they are happy with the deer they shoot more power to them. Some people arent trophy hunters, hell I'm not. I plant food to draw deer, and i shoot what will make me happy. Never have regretted pulling the trigger.
roymunson
5 year old buck +
giant difference.
I have 10 acres of corn that hte neighbor farmed and it didn't compete with 100 pounds in 1 spot.
I don't care what you shoot. Its the same idea as someone who's happy with a job with no stress, but not a lot of upside. Others want to challenge themselves more. Takes all kinds.
But we have put in the work and done things to hold deer, then corn and sexy does drag them off. It happens, but if we could just let 1 age class grow, the whole thing would turn for the better.
Aspire for more, IMO
Bill Loser
5 year old buck +
I agree, with not caring what people shoot. just saying we all have our own goals. I own a small parcel. I can't compete with the bigger plots, so we take what can. Got a soft spot for the smaller land owners i guess.
And no I dont throw out corn. I do plant as much as I can. Is baiting easier yes, but baiting and plotting are both done for the same reasons.
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roosterstraw
5 year old buck +
I know your frustration. Outfitters lease by me and I have personally seen their entire pickup truck loaded down with corn. I only have 100 acres so there’s no possible way to compete with that. They kill all the good young bucks over corn and bring people in daily to hunt this area. So if one client gets a buck there will be another client in there hunting the very next day. The guys from KY probably know who I’m talking about. It’s aggravating but there’s absolutely nothing I can do about it.
Bill Loser
5 year old buck +
Maybe, but would it be as fulfilling for you?
Have fun with what you do, and accept what the neighbors decide to do. What im doing now it probably benifits the one neighbor more than me. Hes got 100 or so , I have 20. I plant food and have a very small amount of cover, he has only mast producing trees for food and all the cover. My food planting makes the deer somewhat predictable for him and his cover makes it predictable to a point for me. Hes a trophy guy, im a if its got horns its down guy. We get along great, we accept what each others expectations are. The guy to the east of us literally shoots anything that moves, im even a lot more picky than him. We get along also. I dont agree with what he does sometimes and he says im crazy for passing on anything. We all get along and everyone gets their share of what they want. The guy to the east baits, alot, the other guy doesnt that i know of, i do not bait usually.
I would like nothing better than if our state banned baiting. When CWD was found in our state, they banned supplemental feeding (outside season), but allow baiting during season - in an effort to increase harvest.
I have thirteen adjacent landowners. Many of these are small acreage landowners. I have spoken with most of them. The majority understand there is little opportunity for them to do any deer management on five to fifteen acres. They also understand if they pass a deer, it only has to walk mere feet in many instances to be on another property. These are hardworking people. Most dont have tractors or even a 4 wheeler. They like to put a deer or two in the freezer. It would be great if every one of them would quit shooting “my” deer - but I understand their plight, they are doing it legally - and I try to not be selfish about it.
We can grow some decent deer around my place - decent for southern US piney woods deer. And in spite of high hunter density, we always have a few 4 plus year old deer. My family went one stretch of three years without killing one of them - prior to us utilizing bait - but my neighbors did, over a corn pile. Since we have started using bait, and more specifically, supplemental feeding through the summer, all the way into January - we probably kill half the mature deer every year.
We have killed two deer off my home 300 acres this year - neither one within 1/4 mile of bait. One in a food plot, and one on a trail in the woods. Because you put out bait does not mean you hunt over bait. And because you hunt over bait, does not mean all the deer will come to bait. My son and his daughter were hunting last weekend - and they could see a bait site from where they were hunting. They saw 29 deer, nine of them bucks. Six of those deer visited the bait site. They did not kill a deer that morning. I just pulled a camera card in a wooded thicket 200 yards from a bait site. There were six or seven different bucks on camera, and half of them have never been on camera at a bait site.
Bait can also benefit your herd. I dont feed corn - I feed a product that is 18% protein and high in fat. We have killed three bucks over 200 lbs in the last two years after having never killed a 200 lb buck in the previous 20 years. Everything you read indicates it helps the does with fawns.
Everything is relative. I hunt a lot of public and hunting my private in comparison is like cheating. I bow hunt and I hunt with a modern rifle - and using a modern rifle is like cheating. Yes, I wish our state would outlaw baiting. But so far they havent. It is part of the playing field. I dont begrudge those who use that technique as the focus of their hunting season. They are hunting legal, and I dont own the deer. I am very fortunate. I own a total of 400 acres for the express purpose of recreation. Very few folks have the opportunity to do that. It is all part of the playing field and I try not to be selfish.
I have thirteen adjacent landowners. Many of these are small acreage landowners. I have spoken with most of them. The majority understand there is little opportunity for them to do any deer management on five to fifteen acres. They also understand if they pass a deer, it only has to walk mere feet in many instances to be on another property. These are hardworking people. Most dont have tractors or even a 4 wheeler. They like to put a deer or two in the freezer. It would be great if every one of them would quit shooting “my” deer - but I understand their plight, they are doing it legally - and I try to not be selfish about it.
We can grow some decent deer around my place - decent for southern US piney woods deer. And in spite of high hunter density, we always have a few 4 plus year old deer. My family went one stretch of three years without killing one of them - prior to us utilizing bait - but my neighbors did, over a corn pile. Since we have started using bait, and more specifically, supplemental feeding through the summer, all the way into January - we probably kill half the mature deer every year.
We have killed two deer off my home 300 acres this year - neither one within 1/4 mile of bait. One in a food plot, and one on a trail in the woods. Because you put out bait does not mean you hunt over bait. And because you hunt over bait, does not mean all the deer will come to bait. My son and his daughter were hunting last weekend - and they could see a bait site from where they were hunting. They saw 29 deer, nine of them bucks. Six of those deer visited the bait site. They did not kill a deer that morning. I just pulled a camera card in a wooded thicket 200 yards from a bait site. There were six or seven different bucks on camera, and half of them have never been on camera at a bait site.
Bait can also benefit your herd. I dont feed corn - I feed a product that is 18% protein and high in fat. We have killed three bucks over 200 lbs in the last two years after having never killed a 200 lb buck in the previous 20 years. Everything you read indicates it helps the does with fawns.
Everything is relative. I hunt a lot of public and hunting my private in comparison is like cheating. I bow hunt and I hunt with a modern rifle - and using a modern rifle is like cheating. Yes, I wish our state would outlaw baiting. But so far they havent. It is part of the playing field. I dont begrudge those who use that technique as the focus of their hunting season. They are hunting legal, and I dont own the deer. I am very fortunate. I own a total of 400 acres for the express purpose of recreation. Very few folks have the opportunity to do that. It is all part of the playing field and I try not to be selfish.
Hoytvectrix
5 year old buck +
Sounds to me like the problem is not inherent in the baiting, but it is in cooperating with your neighbors. I know there have been a few threads on here that have talked about this, but creating a hunting cooperative is what would really make a difference. The neighbors having large or small parcels wouldn't feel like they need to bait if everyone felt more comfortable letting a buck walk.
From my perspective, cooperatives would probably be more effective towards reaching our management objectives than any other management tool. Taking a look at the other popular thread right now on single management tool, letting bucks age is one of the more popular choices. There have been a number of podcast episodes on creating hunting cooperatives and they sound like great ideas. I personally have not been a part of one, and of course have no idea if they are difficult to set up and/or maintain, but my family has been talking about making one for years with our neighbors.
From my perspective, cooperatives would probably be more effective towards reaching our management objectives than any other management tool. Taking a look at the other popular thread right now on single management tool, letting bucks age is one of the more popular choices. There have been a number of podcast episodes on creating hunting cooperatives and they sound like great ideas. I personally have not been a part of one, and of course have no idea if they are difficult to set up and/or maintain, but my family has been talking about making one for years with our neighbors.
4wanderingeyes
5 year old buck +
That doesnt help at all. It is illegal to bait around me, but most do it anyhow. I stopped baiting when it became illegal, and most of my bear problems went away. Now come bow season, most of the bear leave my property, along with the majority of the doe. I leave the best, thickest spot on my property untouched, and I have only been in that area a couple times myself in the entire time I have owned my property. Once the deer get shot at, they know where it is safe. I am not a rack hunter, but I also dont like all the neighbors shooting all the bucks.
Like others have said, if you have the quietest, least scented, thick sanctuary, once they feel pressure they will find your land. You can also deliver corn to them, and they will then have what they need.
That, or a fence.
SD51555
5 year old buck +
What's interesting, I don't think in my neighborhood you'd get a mature buck within shooting distance of a bait pile. I had a smaller basket buck, probably a 2.5 YO working a group of does at my place the past few weeks. We saw him twice, and he never presented himself in the open. He skirtled through the lanes quickly, and never entered the plots. Every time we saw him, it was the farthest corner of our viewing area, and for only a second. It's like he came out and rounded them up and took off. It was really neat to see.
This problem is either going to get better or get worse. I really don't know what way it'll go. I thought for sure we'd see hunter numbers start to decline, and I guess they are, but that doesn't account for hunters moving around. Sprawl pushes them around, areas going habitat dead (wolves, winter, government) pushes them around, economics and politics as well. It was damn busy up by me this year. If it gets worse, there are two paths forward, fix it or quit.
This problem is either going to get better or get worse. I really don't know what way it'll go. I thought for sure we'd see hunter numbers start to decline, and I guess they are, but that doesn't account for hunters moving around. Sprawl pushes them around, areas going habitat dead (wolves, winter, government) pushes them around, economics and politics as well. It was damn busy up by me this year. If it gets worse, there are two paths forward, fix it or quit.
