2015 Pruning pics

[CrazyEd]

Here is another wolf river b118, will be 4th year.

After:

Wider shot of my main orchard which has about 35 trees in it between Oldest tree is 6 years now, a few 5's, majority of 4's and a few 3s. it's been a really fun hobby for me. Every year it should get better and better from a crop standpoint.

 

[wiscwhip]

The 4 apple trees in the garden "orchard"(I hate calling it that), took about 12 or 13 years(the trees were 12-14 ft tall and had 4" trunks) to start throwing a few fruit and then they got a few more fruit each year after that. By the time he sold the place, he was getting between 40-50 apples off the 2 better trees, and about 25-30 apples off of the transplanted trees from our south food plot. We originally had 2 in each of our large plots and 2 in the garden. After 2 years of no growth and only barely hanging on, we decided to transplant the trees from the south food plot with the 2 in the garden so they could be babied. They could get easily watered every day up there. The 2 trees on our north plot were left to go "wild", even though we still maintained the cages. To my knowledge, they have never produced fruit. I have seen them blossom, but we planted them in the shade, tight to the north side of some mature poplars and jack pines in a bad frost pocket at the bottom of a slope(???not kidding, :rolleyes:apple idiots???) and they would always seem to freeze out.:oops:

 

[CrazyEd]

The 4 apple trees in the garden "orchard"(I hate calling it that), took about 12 or 13 years(the trees were 12-14 ft tall and had 4" trunks) to start throwing a few fruit and then they got a few more fruit each year after that. By the time he sold the place, he was getting between 40-50 apples off the 2 better trees, and about 25-30 apples off of the transplanted trees from our south food plot. We originally had 2 in each of our large plots and 2 in the garden. After 2 years of no growth and only barely hanging on, we decided to transplant the trees from the south food plot with the 2 in the garden so they could be babied. They could get easily watered every day up there. The 2 trees on our north plot were left to go "wild", even though we still maintained the cages. To my knowledge, they have never produced fruit. I have seen them blossom, but we planted them in the shade, tight to the north side of some mature poplars and jack pines in a bad frost pocket at the bottom of a slope(???not kidding, :rolleyes:apple idiots???) and they would always seem to freeze out.:oops:

Well in our area rootstock is important. B118 seems to do well. M111 and Dolgo do not and in my experience are a waste of time. I backfill all my holes with 3 bags of manure and black dirt and watersorb. I go against all rules and mulch with 6'x6' black plastic and pea gravel on top. So far this combination has worked well for me. I have done supplemental watering only in 2012 during the extreme drought which was the year I planted most of my trees.

Our environment is different and most people on this forum or others just don't understand it and never will unless they go there. It's not a good place to grow apples, but it can be done.

 

[sandbur]

What was that native pH? I probably do not use near enough lime, up north!

^^^low ph in the native soil would be my guess. Lots and lots of lime (like 20 lbs. of pell lime per tree/per year) went on my trees/surrounding soil in Juneau County.

 

[sandbur]

Well in our area rootstock is important. B118 seems to do well. M111 and Dolgo do not and in my experience are a waste of time. I backfill all my holes with 3 bags of manure and black dirt and watersorb. I go against all rules and mulch with 6'x6' black plastic and pea gravel on top. So far this combination has worked well for me. I have done supplemental watering only in 2012 during the extreme drought which was the year I planted most of my trees.

Our environment is different and most people on this forum or others just don't understand it and never will unless they go there. It's not a good place to grow apples, but it can be done.

I ordered some dolgo rootstock this year. Maybe it was a mistake, but I liked what I had heard about hardiness. I want to plant some trees in a variety of soils and hoped dolgo might fit the bill. Plus they were cheap...

 

[sandbur]

Right around 4.8-5.1 at my folks' place. Wild blueberries = low ph. Most years we didn't get fruit off the blueberries due to lack of moisture, but the bushes grew well. So did sweetfern..which is another plant that loves low ph soil.

Where I want to plant the trees up north has blueberry bushes and I remember running a pH in that range. I added some pelime to the locations last fall. A chestnut on B118 will go there and also a plain B118 with a t-bud or two on it.

I'm sorry to steal your thread, Ed. My north location is about 4 inches of black sand and then gravel underneath. Maybe somewhat similar to your location. I picked a SE slope for these two trees.

 

[sandbur]

I can't wait to see my kerr start to produce. I scolded it with roundup last year!

 

[wiscwhip]

^^^low ph in the native soil would be my guess. Lots and lots of lime (like 20 lbs. of pell lime per tree/per year) went on my trees/surrounding soil in Juneau County.

Yup, we were putting lime on every year, but only about 3-4lbs around each tree, it took a really loooooong time to get the ph to move much at all, but we didn't know any better and didn't want to take a chance harming the trees in some way.

 

[sandbur]

I was/am firmly convinced that watersorb (or another polymer) is extremely important for fruit trees in sandy soil. Not only does it "keep" water around for a period of time, the research I did on the stuff before buying/using it indicated that it could absorb (not sure if that's the right scientific word) nutrients and release them to roots as well.

Do you feel those one pound bags from WalMart work just as well?

 

[CrazyEd]

I ordered some dolgo rootstock this year. Maybe it was a mistake, but I liked what I had heard about hardiness. I want to plant some trees in a variety of soils and hoped dolgo might fit the bill. Plus they were cheap...

Art, I have one tree I got from baileys. It's either Dolgo or Columbia but either way the tree is not doing much. I'm not impressed whatever the root is.

 

[CrazyEd]

I'm sorry to steal your thread, Ed.

Don't apologize Art. This is a good discussion and that's what I want in any thread.

 

[wiscwhip]

Well in our area rootstock is important. B118 seems to do well. M111 and Dolgo do not and in my experience are a waste of time. I backfill all my holes with 3 bags of manure and black dirt and watersorb. I go against all rules and mulch with 6'x6' black plastic and pea gravel on top. So far this combination has worked well for me. I have done supplemental watering only in 2012 during the extreme drought which was the year I planted most of my trees.

Our environment is different and most people on this forum or others just don't understand it and never will unless they go there. It's not a good place to grow apples, but it can be done.

I am sure that was part of the problem Ed. We got the trees from a booth at the WI Deer and Turkey Expo in like '85. We put in an order and they were shipped to us the next week, all I know is we got 6 Red Delicious, because my dad likes them? No clue on the rootstocks other than they were "semi-dwarf", which I know now could mean many different rootstocks.

We just dug a hole a bit deeper than the roots, threw a half of a 5 gallon bucket of cow manure in the bottom of the hole, set the tree in and covered the hole? I don't think watersorb was around in the mid 80's, I surely wasn't aware of it. No mulch, no gravel, just dirt up to the bottom of the trunk. I can't believe they were never girdled, I had no idea they should have been protected from mice and voles with window screen?

 

[sandbur]

You're not going to beat b118 on sandy soil IMHO...the only possible exception I had begun experimenting with is Ranetka. Given price and ease of purchasing...b118 would still be the go to I think.

From what I have read, I suspect some of my seedlings that are still holding apples are ranetka or related. They are here at home and on fair to good soil that trends toward wet in the spring. In the two group exclosures on the north side if you remember them.

 

[sandbur]

I am sure that was part of the problem Ed. We got the trees from a booth at the WI Deer and Turkey Expo in like '85. We put in an order and they were shipped to us the next week, all I know is we got 6 Red Delicious, because my dad likes them? No clue on the rootstocks other than they were "semi-dwarf", which I know now could mean many different rootstocks.

We just dug a hole a bit deeper than the roots, threw a half of a 5 gallon bucket of cow manure in the bottom of the hole, set the tree in and covered the hole? I don't think watersorb was around in the mid 80's, I surely wasn't aware of it. No mulch, no gravel, just dirt up to the bottom of the trunk. I can't believe they were never girdled, I had no idea they should have been protected from mice and voles with window screen?

You know, I did about the same thing where I now live. They were mostly on antanovka and I did put a deer fence around them, but did little for the rabbits. Never considered pruning, either. I am probably lucky these were on decent soil.

 

[sandbur]

Yes, I remember them. Ranetka has a very fibrous rootsystem...like b118...which makes them excellent choices in light, sandy soil. Ranetka crabs also grew quite well at my folks' old place with zero soil amendments...which lead me to believe they may have grown and produced fruit without having to lime every year. I'm not sure if grafting another variety onto them would have resulted in similar growth...that was going to be the next experiment...but I don't have to worry about sandy soil anymore :)

I was hoping dolgo might do just as well. Maybe not.

Those seeds that seem to be ranetka came from a wild tree west of me along a river and also from two trees on the Anoka sand plain and just south of Brainerd. I strongly suspect the pH was low at that location-sand and jack pines along the edge of a small swamp. also the furthest north wild trees I have found-at least working up into zone 3. The north shore is a warmer zone.

 

[wiscwhip]

What was that native pH? I probably do not use near enough lime, up north!

Right around 4.8-5.1 at my folks' place. Wild blueberries = low ph. Most years we didn't get fruit off the blueberries due to lack of moisture, but the bushes grew well. So did sweetfern..which is another plant that loves low ph soil.

Ours started off at 4.7 back in 1982. When we bought the place there were these "mounds" about 8' in diameter and 3' tall that were lined along the road on ours and adjacent properties up and down our road. My dad inquired with the previous owner and he said that he heard the Civilian Conservation Corp had put the piles of limestone every 100 yards or so along the road back in the 30's -40's, possibly for maintenance purposes? They were on "our" side of the ditch, so they found their way onto our plots.;) The last test we took was in 2011, 2 years before the old man sold it, and the ph of the south plot was 6.1 and 5.9 on the north plot.

 

[CrazyEd]

I am sure that was part of the problem Ed. We got the trees from a booth at the WI Deer and Turkey Expo in like '85. We put in an order and they were shipped to us the next week, all I know is we got 6 Red Delicious, because my dad likes them? No clue on the rootstocks other than they were "semi-dwarf", which I know now could mean many different rootstocks.

We just dug a hole a bit deeper than the roots, threw a half of a 5 gallon bucket of cow manure in the bottom of the hole, set the tree in and covered the hole? I don't think watersorb was around in the mid 80's, I surely wasn't aware of it. No mulch, no gravel, just dirt up to the bottom of the trunk. I can't believe they were never girdled, I had no idea they should have been protected from mice and voles with window screen?

6 red delicious won't pollinate themselves, that could be part of your problem.

 

[sandbur]

And some dolgos will be on heavy soil.

 

[sandbur]

6 red delicious won't pollinate themselves, that could be part of your problem.

The answer is crab apples!

 

[sandbur]

I have seen what I think is colombia rootstock bearing apples on light sandy soil, in an area that has low pH. This is in the Pequot Lakes area for those of you who know Minnesota.

As far as winter hardiness, a few years ago I talked to an older gentleman from the Bitterroot area of Montana that sold apple trees. He used to get colombia rootstock out of Canada, but could no longer do so. I thought he had switched to dolgo.

If anyone knows of a source of colombia rootstock, I would like a few for next year.