For those of you who have timbered your farm

[WTNUT]

I am doing a select cut on about 225 acres of my farm this year. The select is not based on size. It is based on species and condition of the forest. This is a relatively mature stand by today’s standards and the only thing lacking from a deer management standpoint is cover and in particular bedding.

We are removing trees that are not likely to be there in 10 years due to overall health of the tree, damaged trees, and low value trees that should have been taken when the stand was last timbered many years ago.

We will introduce more light to the forrest floor no doubt and the understory will improve, but this a pretty light cut.

My question is I have not decided whether I want them to lop the tops after the tree is on the ground. In our area loggers normally lop the tops which causes the tops to fall closer to the ground and decay faster. If they don’t lop them, it will make more cover for the deer.

I would love to see photos of it having been done both ways. Thanks.


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[ruskbucks]

I had mostly a select cut done 6 years ago. I had them leave all the tops. It looked bad the first year. It was difficult to even walk thru it without climbing over branches and sticks. By the second year it was hard to even notice the woods was cut. I think the tops worked well to protect the young trees. With 225 acres I would highly recommend sacrificing a few 1- 3 acre clear cuts if you can. I had 5 done I my land and they are deer bedding hotspots. I would have some clear cuts done and leave the tops. These will be bedding areas. I think if you just select cut, although some light will hit the ground and get regen, the mature trees will block out enough light it won't be thick enough for favored bedding spots. Get full sun to the ground and you will create a more diverse area the deer will love. Something different than the other 225 acres of select cut woods.

 

[WTNUT]

Thanks. I am thinking about the clear cuts. I walked 80 acres of it today looking for a spot or two, but did not decide on any just yet. I was going back in forth between 1 to 2 acre clear cuts vs more 1/2 acre cuts, but I am starting to think they need to be at least 1 acre.


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[Bowsnbucks]

I didn't take any pics when we logged a couple areas - (I should have!) - but every tree variety except oaks decayed pretty rapidly in the first year or two. We left the tops lay. Deer moved into the tops to browse AND bed the very first night the saws began cutting. Most of what we dropped was red maple, but also some crappy tulip poplar, diseased oaks, white pines, and a few damaged hickories. After 2 years, the oak tops were the only things still noticeable - the other stuff rotted down pretty much.

The deer LOVED the cutting and tops on the ground.

 

[ruskbucks]

Thanks. I am thinking about the clear cuts. I walked 80 acres of it today looking for a spot or two, but did not decide on any just yet. I was going back in forth between 1 to 2 acre clear cuts vs more 1/2 acre cuts, but I am starting to think they need to be at least 1 acre.


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My biggest clear cut is 2.5 acres. It is also the best. The key I think is the mixture of tall grass and shrubs. The does bed in here and the bucks check this spot for them everyday during the rut. If you have any spot where you have grass or weeds growing( possible a low area) I would suggest a clear cut around there.

 

[WTNUT]

Thanks for the responses I laid out a 5 ac and 1 ac spot for a clear cut today. I will fine tune it Thursday. This is in a 80 acre section on the south end of the farm. I will look for spots on the 155 acre section that is on the west side of the farm later.


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[buckdeer1]

I cut walnuts apx 15 years ago and we cut 75 off 65 acres.Not really a clear cut but I left tops where they fell.If you leave the tops maybe a good place to plant some new nut producing trees and get some protection

 

[WTNUT]

I cut walnuts apx 15 years ago and we cut 75 off 65 acres.Not really a clear cut but I left tops where they fell.If you leave the tops maybe a good place to plant some new nut producing trees and get some protection

That is a good point. I suppose if you wanted to introduce something you didn’t have, the tree tops would provide some protection for a couple years.


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[ruskbucks]

[/QUOTE]

My biggest clear cut is 2.5 acres. It is also the best. The key I think is the mixture of tall grass and shrubs. The does bed in here and the bucks check this spot for them everyday during the rut. If you have any spot where you have grass or weeds growing( possible a low area) I would suggest a clear cut around there.

Here is a picture of the same clearcut 4 years later to give you and idea. The grass is taller than it looks in the picture. A lot of times I can only see the deer's head. Later in year the grass is thinner and knocked down by snow. Good luck with your projects. Take lots of pictures. It would be cool to see the progression and how it works out for you.

 

[WTNUT]

Ruskbucks,

Thanks for the pictures. I will take photos this year. I was thinking this morning that I should really do a 20 year farm tour. I have photos of where we transformed our farm from 1-2 deer per square mile to a haven for whitetails. It has been a lot of work and time in the making.


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[PatinPA]

I hunt on a friends property and it was very mature. It was never more than a pass through property. He timbered this year and just with the tops on the ground we saw much more bedding activity and daylight movement. I didn't have any stands up because they were still timbering in archery season. Went and just sat on a stool in one of the tops and had two small buck walk within 10 feet of me. I can't wait for it to thicken up now. Going to see if he'll let me put in some small food plots this year too.

 

[BuckSutherland]

-I say leave the tops for sure.....
-Also agree with making a couple clear cuts for sure.....
-My woods was select cut the year before we purchased it. I walked past it on the road one day and saw approximately 150-200 deer on 40 acres feasting on the tops.....


Jeff Sturgis always talks about LAYERED bedding.
1. Primary doe group beds closest to the food. Great spot for a clear cut in close proximity to the destination food source (the place where all the deer gather after dark, especially mature bucks).
2. Subordinate doe groups will bed a little further away from the destination food source (maybe a good spot for another CC).
3. Mature bucks will bed beyond the doe groups AWAY from the food. (you could make these spots with a chainsaw)


-I think you wanna keep the does close to the food, and then develop travel corridors and more secluded bedding spots for the bucks....
-Great to have a couple doe bedding spots and good travel corridors for these bucks to get on their feet in daylight and go scent check the does.
-Give consideration to dominate winds and stand location. I'd pick stand locations BEFORE I pick out where I should cut.
-Get diversity in the bedding area. Deer love open grassy conifer areas in my part of the world with nearby browse and quick escape routes.
-Conifers are awesome in bedding locations and travel corridors. They are mandatory where I hunt.
-With that many acres I would leave large areas unimproved so you know exactly where NOT to expect deer. Not gonna find mature buck in open timber very often. The unimproved areas will be somewhat of a desert, but as a hunter that should work to your advantage. They should stick to the core that you create for them.



Here's a crude map of what I'm talking about.

 

[BuckSutherland]

^^^

I would also clear cut big portions of the travel corridors between the bedding 30-60/75 feet wide to promote browsing and thick regrowth all along the corridor. This is gonna let sun hit the ground in these areas to jumpstart the regen. Leave yourself some junk trees along the way that you can drop for immediate additional cover. I would be inclined to leave healthy oaks along a travel corridor as well. DO NOT cut any conifers out of your travel corridors if you have any. I want my deer to feel safe walking through as well as having all kinds of diversity and edge to chew on and sample. You want them to waste time on your land. The thinner your woods is the quicker they wanna move through.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I agree 100%, Buck. I've observed deer here favoring evergreens for "safer" travels to & from food sources and also during the rut. I've planted spruce "walkways" for the deer to hopefully steer them toward our plots and fruit trees - with carefully placed tree stands along the way!!! I first noticed deer preference to using spruce trees as travel corridors on state land where logging had been done. Norway spruce had been planted along the skid trails and the deer have used those darker, shadowy walkways for over 40 years now. I just copied what I saw there and planted similar patterns at camp. It works. The pic of your crude map is the idea.

I like your idea of planting, cutting, hinging other trees to have browse along the evergreen trails to keep the deer occupied and eating. I'll rob your idea for creating more browse!!

 

[WTNUT]

^^^

I would also clear cut big portions of the travel corridors between the bedding 30-60/75 feet wide to promote browsing and thick regrowth all along the corridor. This is gonna let sun hit the ground in these areas to jumpstart the regen. Leave yourself some junk trees along the way that you can drop for immediate additional cover. I would be inclined to leave healthy oaks along a travel corridor as well. DO NOT cut any conifers out of your travel corridors if you have any. I want my deer to feel safe walking through as well as having all kinds of diversity and edge to chew on and sample. You want them to waste time on your land. The thinner your woods is the quicker they wanna move through.

Thanks for the response. I marked 12 acres for clear cut this weekend which started on Friday for me. I don’t have any conifers, and there is no real “bedding” areas on my property. If they exist they exist because of topography. For example, most of my roads on on top of the ridges, so deer tend to bed on flats near the bottom of a hollow. I have marked several flats at the bottom for clear cuts and the head of two drains near the bottom. There is not need in my opinion to make a clear cut at the top where we are driving near or through it with tractors or ATVs.


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[BuckSutherland]

^^^
I would do whatever it takes this spring to get 100 conifers established on your property this year and 100 more next year, and maybe 100 more the year after. You can make cages ahead of time. Once the ground thaws get some potted trees (1-2 gallon pots) and get some conifers growing. I would only plant whatever you can afford to give the full package. Cage, weed mat, mulch, decent sized potted tree. I figure I am at roughly $20 per tree for materials over the course of the last few years. I chose conifers and cover over food plots on my land because I have a 70 acre hay/alfalfa field across the road from me. Coniferous cover was the lowest hole in my bucket.

 

[WTNUT]

^^^
I would do whatever it takes this spring to get 100 conifers established on your property this year and 100 more next year, and maybe 100 more the year after. You can make cages ahead of time. Once the ground thaws get some potted trees (1-2 gallon pots) and get some conifers growing. I would only plant whatever you can afford to give the full package. Cage, weed mat, mulch, decent sized potted tree. I figure I am at roughly $20 per tree for materials over the course of the last few years. I chose conifers and cover over food plots on my land because I have a 70 acre hay/alfalfa field across the road from me. Coniferous cover was the lowest hole in my bucket.

Sit down for this one. I have a fairly large farm. Your suggestion is a great one I took to heart in 2003. That spring we planted 35,000 white pines. In 2005, I had zero. I am over the conifer management lol.


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[WTNUT]

After thinking about it there were some Loblollys in there too - maybe 7,500 to 10,000.


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[BuckSutherland]

^^^ Imagine if you would have planted 20 a year from 2003, until now and caged them.....Your tallest ones would be over 30 feet tall by now. You would have close to 400 trees and your survivability would have went from 0 to 95+%. Likely a game changer for your neighborhood. It sounds like the deer in your area dont let conifers survive.


When other ask spread the word to them so they can learn from your mistake. I had near ZERO survive on my land for the first 7 years too. Then I went to cages and now almost everything survives and thrives. Not easy, but I expect game changing results by year ten.

 

[ruskbucks]

Sit down for this one. I have a fairly large farm. Your suggestion is a great one I took to heart in 2003. That spring we planted 35,000 white pines. In 2005, I had zero. I am over the conifer management lol.


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Yikes! We're deer the demise of all the pines? I thought I had it bad when they ate 298 of my 300 scotch pines. They were knocked back a couple years but most of them still made it.