chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
Here is a photo of my other successful bench graft of Crimson Spire. On P18 rootstock. I might be able to take off that little side branch this winter and get a graft out of it.
Project W: Columnar Apple Shot Plot
- Thread starter chickenlittle
- Start date
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
Here was an unconventional graft I did last May. I had already planted everything at the farm in PA when my columnar trees arrived in early May. I pruned those before planting and decided I had nothing to lose if I tried field grafting that pruned wood onto rootstock I planted in PA. I refrigerated the scions and drove to the farm the next day. I made 4 or 5 grafts. The one shown here is the only one that took. I grafted high so I did not risk losing rootstock.
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
In August I pruned some of this years growth of the columnar trees in my NY breeding orchard and T-budded with it the next day at the farm. It looked like the Northpole buds did not take but I am hopeful I got some of everything else. Here are photos of the ones that have already pushed out leaves.
Urban Apple Tasty Red on P18. There is a 2nd Tbud on above on the left.
Golden Sentinel on P18. Tbud on left leafed out. Rootstock shoot on the right side was removed after the photo. 2nd T bud above on right side.
This is Golden or Scarlet Sentinel on B118.
This one is on B118 that was a failed cleft graft from last spring. The bottom bud leafed out while one above on the other side has not yet .
Another one on B118 with both buds leafing out.
Urban Apple Tasty Red on P18. There is a 2nd Tbud on above on the left.
Golden Sentinel on P18. Tbud on left leafed out. Rootstock shoot on the right side was removed after the photo. 2nd T bud above on right side.
This is Golden or Scarlet Sentinel on B118.
This one is on B118 that was a failed cleft graft from last spring. The bottom bud leafed out while one above on the other side has not yet .
Another one on B118 with both buds leafing out.
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
Some updates:
I joined some fruit and nut groups on Facebook and the Web that helped me make a couple connections. One person sent me seeds from their Northpole and Scarlet Sentinel apples. I'll grow out those seeds and work on my nursery skills. Another has a Maypole crab and will give me scionwood.
My breeding orchard is mostly ready for winter. My dwarf trees in rootmaker pots are buried. White latex paint on trunks. Just need to add hardware cloth or window screen.
I plan to try rooting cuttings from several rootstocks. I'll start as soon as I build a heated bed. I got the liquid rooting hormone and a heated cable for the bed.
I have not ordered rootstock for next year yet but will do that by January.
I joined some fruit and nut groups on Facebook and the Web that helped me make a couple connections. One person sent me seeds from their Northpole and Scarlet Sentinel apples. I'll grow out those seeds and work on my nursery skills. Another has a Maypole crab and will give me scionwood.
My breeding orchard is mostly ready for winter. My dwarf trees in rootmaker pots are buried. White latex paint on trunks. Just need to add hardware cloth or window screen.
I plan to try rooting cuttings from several rootstocks. I'll start as soon as I build a heated bed. I got the liquid rooting hormone and a heated cable for the bed.
I have not ordered rootstock for next year yet but will do that by January.
John-W-WI
Administrator
Keep us posted on any rooted cuttings, I've tried (and failed) a few tired. But still believe there is something to be had there.
Sent from my 8g phone.
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
A few rootstocks are supposed to relatively easy to propagate by cuttings. A number of Cornell Geneva rootstock can be rooted from cuttings and this is discussed in the patents for G.65 (very dwarf), G.11 (dwarf), and Novole. Willamette Nurseries propagates a number of Geneva's by both cuttings and stoolbeds. Another that is mentioned as being easily propagated by cuttings is Bud 490 (similar size/vigor to MM106. There is quite a bit of literature on rooting of M and MM cuttings but success rates are generally low.
This year, I will try cuttings of G.11, Bud 118, and Polish 18 but I only expect to have success with the G.11. The G.11 will get a quick dip into concentrated rooting solution while the B118 and P18 will get a low concentration overnight soak. After soaking, I'll do 3-4 weeks in the heated bed with the tops exposed to the cold in my garage. After that, they will sit unheated and planted in the nursery in the spring and T-budded next summer. In the future, I will try to propagate Novole and Bud 490 by cuttings.
This year, I will try cuttings of G.11, Bud 118, and Polish 18 but I only expect to have success with the G.11. The G.11 will get a quick dip into concentrated rooting solution while the B118 and P18 will get a low concentration overnight soak. After soaking, I'll do 3-4 weeks in the heated bed with the tops exposed to the cold in my garage. After that, they will sit unheated and planted in the nursery in the spring and T-budded next summer. In the future, I will try to propagate Novole and Bud 490 by cuttings.
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
I had planned to go light on grafting this spring but I have failed. I had been thinking 25 max, some B118 and MM106. Over the last couple months, I talked myself into doubling the density of my regular orchard to 15ft in row and 30ft between rows. That opens up 26 spots for B118. If I could get some larger caliper, those would work better for bench grafting columnar trees. Willamette shows a few 7/16" B118 on their website so I called to see if I could get 50. Unfortunately, all they have is 1/8" B118 in bundles of 100.
Last night, I tried to work out where to order some B118 and a few others. But for the price, i could order 100 from the larger wholesalers. I looked at what Treco had for inventory knowing I had to buy 100 but could get 50 and 50. They have lots of 1/4" B118 regrades (20% discount) and showed a few hundred 1/2" MM111 that would work with the columnar trees. Got 50 of each on order for $1.21 each plus shipping. Plus an order from Cummins for 1 sour cherry tree, 3 OHxF87 pear rootstock and 6 G.935.
Now I need to figure out what I need for scions from the USDA (January 15 deadline) and what I can want from other sources. Some of this will get planted for budding in August or grafted next year.
No other major plantings this spring. Some direct seeding of chestnuts and 100 red spruce from the NH state nursery. Some indoor starting of chestnuts, paw paw and columnar apple seeds. I'll probably hire a nephew to plant the spruce.
Last night, I tried to work out where to order some B118 and a few others. But for the price, i could order 100 from the larger wholesalers. I looked at what Treco had for inventory knowing I had to buy 100 but could get 50 and 50. They have lots of 1/4" B118 regrades (20% discount) and showed a few hundred 1/2" MM111 that would work with the columnar trees. Got 50 of each on order for $1.21 each plus shipping. Plus an order from Cummins for 1 sour cherry tree, 3 OHxF87 pear rootstock and 6 G.935.
Now I need to figure out what I need for scions from the USDA (January 15 deadline) and what I can want from other sources. Some of this will get planted for budding in August or grafted next year.
No other major plantings this spring. Some direct seeding of chestnuts and 100 red spruce from the NH state nursery. Some indoor starting of chestnuts, paw paw and columnar apple seeds. I'll probably hire a nephew to plant the spruce.
Turkey Creek
5 year old buck +
B490 is not as great as was originally touted. No one propagates it in the USA that I am aware of anymore. I talked to a guy at Penn State last year about it and he said it failed to be a worthwhile substitute for anything that already existed.
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
All rootstocks have some negatives. The only real negative to B.490 that I've found is potential for late winter injury. Penn State's website still says nice things about it...supposedly based off their 2015 Production Guide. If the guy you talked to had specific knocks against B.490, I'd like to know what those were.
To be commercially successful, it had to win production space from B.118, P.18, and the well established MM.106 and MM.111. No shame in not winning that battle. The fact that it can be propagated by hardwood cuttings is enough for me to play play with it. I am also going to try rooting cuttings of the Novole rootstock which never caught on for good reason. While voles don't like the taste, Novovle gives a full size tree, slow to fruit, and and relatively low productivity. Still, I'll try it if I can get cuttings to root and probably use a smaller Geneva, probably G.11 as an interstem.
To be commercially successful, it had to win production space from B.118, P.18, and the well established MM.106 and MM.111. No shame in not winning that battle. The fact that it can be propagated by hardwood cuttings is enough for me to play play with it. I am also going to try rooting cuttings of the Novole rootstock which never caught on for good reason. While voles don't like the taste, Novovle gives a full size tree, slow to fruit, and and relatively low productivity. Still, I'll try it if I can get cuttings to root and probably use a smaller Geneva, probably G.11 as an interstem.
Turkey Creek
5 year old buck +
Dont recall the specifics. Some of the things on Penn States website and manuals are a bit out dated that was direct from the source as well. B 490 just failed to prove to be better than anything else in the same class, at least enough to justify somebody growing it commercially. I wanted to try some thats why I looked into it.
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
I started my experiment in rooting hardwood cuttings of roostocks. I took cutting of G.11, M.27, B.118, and P.18. I got some liquid concentrate of DipNGrow rooting hormone (10000ppm IBA/5000ppm NAA). G.11 is supposed to root fairly well. For that, I used the standard recommendation of 1:4 water (2000ppm IBA/1000NAA) for a 5 second count. Having no good information on rooting the rest, I assumed they were difficult to root and did a 30 hour soak at a lower concentration (1:49 which gives 200ppm IBA / 100ppm NAA). I wounded the bases of some of the B.118 and P.18 by scraping the bark on two sides of each stick up from the base for 1/2" to 1".The G.11 and M.27 were cut about an hour before soaking. The other were cut a week ago and stored in a fridge. I cut off the bottom of those to expose fresh wood.
Here is the setup I put together to root them. After much though, I decided to use a plastic storage tub. I lined it with 2" thick foam sheet insulation. I bought a wire heater with thermostat set to 70F. I zip tied the wire to an old BBQ grill grate so the wires stayed where they should be and spread the heat some. I filled the insulated box with 5 to 6" of mixed perlite/sand/peatmoss (about 50% peat, 25% sand, 25% perlite by volume).
The set has been transferred to my unheated garage. The tops will be cold while the cable should keep the bases warm. I'll monitor for moisture and rot. I let them callus over for 4 to 6 weeks with heat on the bottom. At that point, I may just turn off the cable and let them sit until planting out in my garden nursery. Any that root and grow will be bud grafted in August and transplanted in 2017 or 2018.
Here is the setup I put together to root them. After much though, I decided to use a plastic storage tub. I lined it with 2" thick foam sheet insulation. I bought a wire heater with thermostat set to 70F. I zip tied the wire to an old BBQ grill grate so the wires stayed where they should be and spread the heat some. I filled the insulated box with 5 to 6" of mixed perlite/sand/peatmoss (about 50% peat, 25% sand, 25% perlite by volume).
The set has been transferred to my unheated garage. The tops will be cold while the cable should keep the bases warm. I'll monitor for moisture and rot. I let them callus over for 4 to 6 weeks with heat on the bottom. At that point, I may just turn off the cable and let them sit until planting out in my garden nursery. Any that root and grow will be bud grafted in August and transplanted in 2017 or 2018.
Turkey Creek
5 year old buck +
Always fun to experiment. Good luck!
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
When I went through my seeds a couple weeks ago, I missed some apple seeds in the bottom of the crisper. These were open pollinated seeds of the columnar variety Golden Sentinel. The tree I planted last spring had 5 apples on it and 2 made it to August or September (didn't note it). Those apples looked like they were going to rot so I took them inside. I took the seeds out and they were not fully brown, still some white on them. I cleaned and stored with a slightly moist paper towel in the crisper. I was surprised when I found them 3 or 4 days ago. All 7 seeds had germinated. I put them into rootmaker 18s and each was pushing the seed up in the air the next day. One dropped the seed off today and has little green leaves. Hopefully by this summer I'll be able to determine from the internode spacing if any are columnar or not. Columnar have buds very close together. Columnar ones I'll grow out and non-columnars will get discarded or maybe planted for browse.
I'll have to check the other columnar apple seeds I got, open-pollinated Scarlett Sentinel and Northpole. I was unsure last time I looked if some were starting to germinate or not. None had radicals but a few seemed close. I put 4 of those into RM18s but they did nothing.
I'll have to check the other columnar apple seeds I got, open-pollinated Scarlett Sentinel and Northpole. I was unsure last time I looked if some were starting to germinate or not. None had radicals but a few seemed close. I put 4 of those into RM18s but they did nothing.
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
I also just got an email from UPS that my USDA GRIN order of scionwood shipped and will arrive tomorrow afternoon.
Turkey Creek
5 year old buck +
Just like Christmas time! Only better!!!
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
Update on rooting the cuttings. I most wanted to get G.11 to root but that looks to be a failure. They all seemed to develop some white rot, not at the cut but farther up the stem. The others have not shown rotting but I can't see that they have callused and will root. I turned off the heater cable and will plant them outside in a raised bed in a couple weeks and see if any will root and grow.
Turkey Creek
5 year old buck +
I had the same luck with trying to root OHxF root stocks. I know they propagate the pear root stocks from cuttings and read a old university research paper on it but couldnt seem to make it work. I came to the conclusion some things arent worth the trouble.
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
Over the weekend, I got a chance to review my T-buds from last summer.
For regular apple trees from USDA GRIN or some of my own trees, it looks like close to 100% success. Of the 34 I inspected, looked like 1 was a failure and another that I could not see for sure if the two buds were good or not.
For columnar trees, my success is much lower. Of 31 rootstocks that I budded, 11 look good, 13 look bad or are clear failures, and 11 that might surprise me. On the plus side, those were the first I did and I felt that some of the budwood I took was probably not mature enough. The good news is it looks like I got at lease one new tree of each variety except for one.
For regular apple trees from USDA GRIN or some of my own trees, it looks like close to 100% success. Of the 34 I inspected, looked like 1 was a failure and another that I could not see for sure if the two buds were good or not.
For columnar trees, my success is much lower. Of 31 rootstocks that I budded, 11 look good, 13 look bad or are clear failures, and 11 that might surprise me. On the plus side, those were the first I did and I felt that some of the budwood I took was probably not mature enough. The good news is it looks like I got at lease one new tree of each variety except for one.
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
Last spring I tried grafting columnar varieties Northpole, Crimson Spire, Scarlet Spire, and Emerald Spire with scionwood from Maple Valley. I did get 2 trees of Crimson Spire from that grafting but nothing of the others. I would have tried I would have tried again this spring but Maple Valley is not selling scionwood this spring. A couple months ago I got an e-mail from Stark Brothers saying they were going to have some columnar trees available. Although I had not planned to buy more grafted trees, I took the opportunity to order a Scarlet Spire, Emerald Spire, and a Maypole columnar crab. I also found a guy on the web that has the Maypole crab and he sent me a stick of scionwood for that. So I should have at least one specimen of most all the columnar apples that have been sold in the US. The only ones missing will be Stark's Ultra Spire and Irish Spire.
