Pecan Trees

[Dukslayr]

I have 10 acres on my farm (around my shop and pond) that are out of CRP and ripe for planting some fruit and/or nut trees. I’m considering planting 5-10 pecan trees in one part of this area. A couple questions. First, does anyone know of a good source for pecan trees that are 2-3”+ in caliber? Or some variety the rapidly establishes?Cost is not the biggest factor and I’m willing to pay for quality trees that will establish quickly and, ultimately, bear fruit a little sooner than starting from scratch. Hoping to get some trees that could start putting out a few nuts in 8-10 years. Not sure if that’s reasonable or not.
Second, anyone have a suggestion on specific types of pecan trees that produce more and/ ether nuts? Again, these trees are for the family, not for the deer. I’m in northern Missouri if that matters. Thank you.

 

[bigbendmarine]

Dukslayr, I'm about 1,000 miles south of you and can promise the cultivars I'd speak to having planted down my way are completely different than those that work best in Missouri. For that matter, recommended varities tend to differ even within small zones of many states, Missouri included.

Did a bit of digging and think that this link will give you a good starting point if you haven't already found it. Be sure to click the PDF file link within the page as it gives some fairly detailed zone / cultivar info.

https://extension2.missouri.edu/af1002

As for producing early, some cultivars DO produce faster than others, but I'd strongly recommend putting the first priority on picking the healthiest cultivars for your area. That said, bet you'll see some production start in that 8 to 10 year range though it'll ramp up from there.

Few other general pointers -- getting the spacing right can be critical for good pollination, and quite often you want to plant several complimentary cultivars to maximize production.

As much time as you can find reading through such publications as the linked site's PDF file, even possibly reaching out to the author or other pecan farmers on your plan will be time very well spent.

You may already know this too but pecans can be much like oaks in having good yield years and then very weak years.

Finally, unless you plant a pile once they start producing you best be ready to shoot lots of squirrels and crows to ensure you and your family get to enjoy the fruit of your labors! Those critters can put a real hurting on production!

Good luck and hope you're able to get the right ones in dirt this spring!

 

[Bill]

According to this there aren’t many natives alive.
https://livingcollections.org/mobot/taxon/281352?tab=accessions

These guys are the ones that show alive. South of us but not as far south as St.Louis. Might be worth a call. I’ve heard of them but don’t know anything about them. Doesn’t look like their trees are as large as you want but they may know something..

https://www.starkbros.com/

 

[Dukslayr]

Dukslayr, I'm about 1,000 miles south of you and can promise the cultivars I'd speak to having planted down my way are completely different than those that work best in Missouri. For that matter, recommended varities tend to differ even within small zones of many states, Missouri included.

Did a bit of digging and think that this link will give you a good starting point if you haven't already found it. Be sure to click the PDF file link within the page as it gives some fairly detailed zone / cultivar info.

https://extension2.missouri.edu/af1002

As for producing early, some cultivars DO produce faster than others, but I'd strongly recommend putting the first priority on picking the healthiest cultivars for your area. That said, bet you'll see some production start in that 8 to 10 year range though it'll ramp up from there.

Few other general pointers -- getting the spacing right can be critical for good pollination, and quite often you want to plant several complimentary cultivars to maximize production.

As much time as you can find reading through such publications as the linked site's PDF file, even possibly reaching out to the author or other pecan farmers on your plan will be time very well spent.

You may already know this too but pecans can be much like oaks in having good yield years and then very weak years.

Finally, unless you plant a pile once they start producing you best be ready to shoot lots of squirrels and crows to ensure you and your family get to enjoy the fruit of your labors! Those critters can put a real hurting on production!

Good luck and hope you're able to get the right ones in dirt this spring!

Thank you for the info! I had not seen that yet but I’ll dig into it. I’ll probably reach out to our local forester as well and see if they have any suggestions as well.

 

[Dukslayr]

According to this there aren’t many natives alive.
https://livingcollections.org/mobot/taxon/281352?tab=accessions

These guys are the ones that show alive. South of us but not as far south as St.Louis. Might be worth a call. I’ve heard of them but don’t know anything about them. Doesn’t look like their trees are as large as you want but they may know something..

https://www.starkbros.com/

Thanks Bill. I know there are a bunch down in west central and southwest Missouri, but even though that’s only 150-200 miles away it may make a huge difference. I’ll reach out to Stark Bro’s and see what recommendations they have for my county/area.

 

[144]

You could check with Bass Pecan too. They’re in MS, but maybe they could help-

https://basspecantrees.com

Also, this guy is very knowledgeable and maybe able to help, closer to your area. Great blog -

http://northernpecans.blogspot.com



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Boll Weevil]

I've bought several from TyTy nursery in south GA. Cape Fear and Amling varieties but you'll want to do the homework for varieties that can thrive in your zone.

 

[j-bird]

The MDC website lists pecans (not the size you are looking for) but they do have them. You may want to reach out to someone there to see if they can offer up any advice as well.

https://mdc12.mdc.mo.gov/Applications/TreeSeedling/?page=4

 

[Lucky_P]

MDC will have native pecan seedlings... but from personal experience, you'll be looking at close to 20 years for a seedling pecan to come into bearing, and nut quality will be a crapshoot. The kids and I planted about 500 2-yr old seedlings of Major & Posey in a CRP riparian bufferstrip here on the farm, back in 2000 - biggest survivors are just now coming into bearing. Grafted trees will begin bearing in half the time, or less.
By all means, plant grafted specimens of scab-resistant Northern/Midwestern-adapted varieties, like Kanza, Hark, Major, Posey, Greenriver, Oswego, Shepherd, Warren 346. Unless you have an air-blast sprayer and are prepared to spray for pecan scab, many of the commercial-type pecans, like Desirable, etc., are gonna be heartbreakers...you may never get an edible nut.
Let me put in a personal plug for 'Major'... KY-origin nut, used extensively by USDA in their breeding program for the northern/midwestern pecan belt as source of genetic scab-resistance, as well as precocity, heavy annual bearing and excellent kernel quality... and, in drought years, it just makes smaller, well-filled nuts, instead of full-size nuts with shriveled, unfilled kernels. Genetic evaluation has shown that it is actually a complex hican, with gene markers common to shagbark and bitternut hickories... 100 years after it was selected out of the Green River delta native pecan forest, it's still a very good pecan.

Bill Reid's list of cultivars linked below is a good guide for specs on appropriate Northern/Midwestern varieties:
http://northernpecans.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html

Haven't looked at Stark's offerings recently, but they're pretty limited, and some will not be suitable for your site, or home/low-input plantings.
Forrest Keeling nursery, over at Elsberry MO offers RPM-grown grafted specimens that should work for you.
My friends at Nolin River Nut Tree Nursery ( www.nolinnursery.com ) offer a wide selection of grafted pecans, hickories, persimmons, pawpaws, walnuts, etc. They're a small, family operation, and are typically sold out a year or more in advance.
Rock Bridge Trees is also a potential source for grafted selections that would be appropriate.

Unless a Southern pecan nursery is using a Northern-adapted seedling rootstock like Major or Giles seedlings, the possibility that your grafted trees could be taken out by a 'test' winter is pretty substantial. Fellow down here in KY planted 1000 grafted pecans out of a TX nursery back in the 70s... while the grafted Northern varieties were plenty hardy, the southern (Elliott seedlings?) rootstocks were not, and the winter of 1978 took 'em out... killed the rootstocks stone-cold dead.
TyTy?...AACK! Probably THE VERY WORST NURSERY EVER!!! STAY AWAY FROM THEM!!!
Bass Pecan is great... may have appropriate varieties AND appropriate rootstocks... but ask before you order.

 

[ksgobbler]

If you want some pecans this fall I have a monster specimen behind my deer stand that has offspring popping up all over. They seem to bear young. I can get you some this fall.

 

[Dukslayr]

I appreciate all the feedback and suggestions. I’m still doing some research on what (if any) pecans are going to work well for me. There’s a bit more to it than I thought.
Out of curiosity, does anyone know if pecan can be grafted to walnut? I believe the are of the same genus but couldn’t find much with a google search.

Also looking into hican a bit.

 

[yoderjac]

I have 10 acres on my farm (around my shop and pond) that are out of CRP and ripe for planting some fruit and/or nut trees. I’m considering planting 5-10 pecan trees in one part of this area. A couple questions. First, does anyone know of a good source for pecan trees that are 2-3”+ in caliber? Or some variety the rapidly establishes?Cost is not the biggest factor and I’m willing to pay for quality trees that will establish quickly and, ultimately, bear fruit a little sooner than starting from scratch. Hoping to get some trees that could start putting out a few nuts in 8-10 years. Not sure if that’s reasonable or not.
Second, anyone have a suggestion on specific types of pecan trees that produce more and/ ether nuts? Again, these trees are for the family, not for the deer. I’m in northern Missouri if that matters. Thank you.

Research this well if you are planting them for deer. I tried my hand at grafting Pecans to hickory trees. My success rate was low, about 30%, and those that took never really took off, so I abandoned the project. Before I started it, I did some investigation. What I found was a very wide variety of responses from folks with pecans. Some reported the nuts just sat on the ground and deer never touched them. Others reported deer were in the pecans every night devouring them.

As I investigated further, it seemed to be related to the shell thickness. Only squirrels seem to use our hickory nuts. They have very thick shells and even in acorn failure years deer don't eat the hickory nuts on the ground. They may not be able to crack them. Some pecans have significantly thicker shells than others. Another factor may be tannin. The separation between the nuts has tannin. Different varieties likely have different amounts of tannin as well as differences in shell thickness.

The varieties I tried were Kanza and Pawnee. There are also disease issues and I think they were identified as more resistant. Keep in mind you need more than one variety and they need to be compatible for pollination. I can't speak to how these varieties work as I abandoned the project before I got nuts.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Dukslayr]

Research this well if you are planting them for deer. I tried my hand at grafting Pecans to hickory trees. My success rate was low, about 30%, and those that took never really took off, so I abandoned the project. Before I started it, I did some investigation. What I found was a very wide variety of responses from folks with pecans. Some reported the nuts just sat on the ground and deer never touched them. Others reported deer were in the pecans every night devouring them.

As I investigated further, it seemed to be related to the shell thickness. Only squirrels seem to use our hickory nuts. They have very thick shells and even in acorn failure years deer don't eat the hickory nuts on the ground. They may not be able to crack them. Some pecans have significantly thicker shells than others. Another factor may be tannin. The separation between the nuts has tannin. Different varieties likely have different amounts of tannin as well as differences in shell thickness.

The varieties I tried were Kanza and Pawnee. There are also disease issues and I think they were identified as more resistant. Keep in mind you need more than one variety and they need to be compatible for pollination. I can't speak to how these varieties work as I abandoned the project before I got nuts.

Thanks,

Jack

Thanks for the input Jack. These would be for our personal consumption only (well, and the squirrels I’m guessing). The area I’m hoping to plant these in is around my shop and not used by deer (other than at night). If I were grafting some to hickory or walnut (if compatible) I would try them along my fiend edges...but still not intended for deer. One of these days I want to plant some fruit bearing trees for deer, but need my ground to come out of CRP first.

 

[yoderjac]

Thanks for the input Jack. These would be for our personal consumption only (well, and the squirrels I’m guessing). The area I’m hoping to plant these in is around my shop and not used by deer (other than at night). If I were grafting some to hickory or walnut (if compatible) I would try them along my fiend edges...but still not intended for deer. One of these days I want to plant some fruit bearing trees for deer, but need my ground to come out of CRP first.

Makes sense. I'd still look into disease resistant varieties. What are the restrictions on CRP? There may be something you can do to get ahead of the curve. I have an idea

 

[Dukslayr]

Makes sense. I'd still look into disease resistant varieties. What are the restrictions on CRP? There may be something you can do to get ahead of the curve. I have an idea

The restrictions are, in a nutshell (no pun intended), that I can’t do anything outside the contract unless approved. Tree planting would likely not be approved with the programs I’m enrolled in. That being said I’m only 1.5 years out on the first wave of it expiring. Some may get re enrolled and some may get converted back to production or self directed wildlife habitat. I haven’t decided yet.

 

[Lucky_P]

Kanza - very scab-resistant; Pawnee - scab-susceptible.

You can graft pecan onto *some* hickories, but it usually doesn't work well, long-term... pecan is a much more vigorous grower than most hickories, and will 'outgrow' the understock, or be significantly stressed and unproductive.
http://northernpecans.blogspot.com/2016/02/unequally-yoked-grafting-hickory-on.html
In general, we recommend using Carya species with same chromosome numbers... Pecan, bitter pecan, bitternut hickory, shagbark and shellbark hickory have 32 chromosome count...thus we typically graft pecan, shagbark & shellbark onto pecan rootstock for best production.
Mockernut, pignut, and most other common hickories have 64 chromosome count... and are less likely to support 32-C species.
When I first started grafting pecans & hickories, I didn't have a supply of pecan seedlings... all I had were young hickories at the edge of the woods... first successful nut tree graft I made, 25 yrs ago, was 'Lindauer' shellbark, onto a mockernut seedling; it grew well the first year, then 'woke up dead' the next spring. I'm presuming it was an incompatibility issue.

I've seen deer (and cows) eat pecans... doubt that either eat hickories... but I sure do! If you've ever had hickory pie... pecan just doesn't cut it anymore!

Hicans... I'd advise against them. I have 10 or more different hican varieties grafted and growing here... some for 25 years. They're vigorous growers, but shy bearers, and most years, IF they fill their kernels, 90+% of the nuts are weevil infested. With 30+ varieties of pecans and a similar number of grafted hickory selections here in addition to the hicans, pollenation should not be an issue, so I think the poorly-filled kernel deal is just a hican trait. I'd stick to pecans... and improved hickory selections.

Kids & I planted about 500 northern pecan seedlings (Major & Posey parentage) and black walnuts, at 20-30 ft spacings, in a (7-acre total) 100-ft wide CRP riparian bufferstrip deal on the farm here, back in 2000. That program did allow planting trees. Not sure about other CRP programs.

 

[yoderjac]

The reason I was asking about the specific CRP restrictions is something I learned about from the local orchard/cider works. They sold me some folks take their pressings and spread them on fields for the OM and nutritional value. They told me those folks get a lot of apple seedlings pop up from the seed in the pressings.

My point is that this might be a creative way to get a head start if spreading pressings is permitted under the OPs specific CRP contract. Spreading them in an area you eventually want fruit trees may provide some seedlings for future grafting when the contract ends. Just thinking outside the box.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Dukslayr]

Kanza - very scab-resistant; Pawnee - scab-susceptible.

You can graft pecan onto *some* hickories, but it usually doesn't work well, long-term... pecan is a much more vigorous grower than most hickories, and will 'outgrow' the understock, or be significantly stressed and unproductive.
http://northernpecans.blogspot.com/2016/02/unequally-yoked-grafting-hickory-on.html
In general, we recommend using Carya species with same chromosome numbers... Pecan, bitter pecan, bitternut hickory, shagbark and shellbark hickory have 32 chromosome count...thus we typically graft pecan, shagbark & shellbark onto pecan rootstock for best production.
Mockernut, pignut, and most other common hickories have 64 chromosome count... and are less likely to support 32-C species.
When I first started grafting pecans & hickories, I didn't have a supply of pecan seedlings... all I had were young hickories at the edge of the woods... first successful nut tree graft I made, 25 yrs ago, was 'Lindauer' shellbark, onto a mockernut seedling; it grew well the first year, then 'woke up dead' the next spring. I'm presuming it was an incompatibility issue.

I've seen deer (and cows) eat pecans... doubt that either eat hickories... but I sure do! If you've ever had hickory pie... pecan just doesn't cut it anymore!

Hicans... I'd advise against them. I have 10 or more different hican varieties grafted and growing here... some for 25 years. They're vigorous growers, but shy bearers, and most years, IF they fill their kernels, 90+% of the nuts are weevil infested. With 30+ varieties of pecans and a similar number of grafted hickory selections here in addition to the hicans, pollenation should not be an issue, so I think the poorly-filled kernel deal is just a hican trait. I'd stick to pecans... and improved hickory selections.

Kids & I planted about 500 northern pecan seedlings (Major & Posey parentage) and black walnuts, at 20-30 ft spacings, in a (7-acre total) 100-ft wide CRP riparian bufferstrip deal on the farm here, back in 2000. That program did allow planting trees. Not sure about other CRP programs.

Thank you. I do have a good bunch of shagbark that might be fun to experiment with.

 

[Lucky_P]

I've got somewhere around 20 named shagbark selections (and a similar number of named shellbarks) grafted & growing here; if you think you might wanna try some 'improved' ones at some point, I can supply scionwood if contacted in Feb.

 

[Dukslayr]

I've got somewhere around 20 named shagbark selections (and a similar number of named shellbarks) grafted & growing here; if you think you might wanna try some 'improved' ones at some point, I can supply scionwood if contacted in Feb.

I would love to get some next year to try. I can prepare and find the right root stock this summer/fall to prepare for next year. What part of the country are you in?