Menu
What's new
By:
Filters

Ohio Farm Tours

 
IMG_3170.jpegIMG_5558.pngIMG_5562.jpegLove getting pics from customers and from our cell cameras showing deer, even in the harshest of weather, still finding plenty to eat in the Fall planted Carbon Load!

The diversity continues to deliver!

It is a great time of year to plan for next Springs plan - we are so excited for NitroBoost planting this Spring.

For now -

Soil test
Browse surveys
Tsi
Invasive control
Etc.

Be safe, stay warm and check us out at Vitalize Seed!
 
Water infiltration- why’s it important?!

 
Something I am passionate about that I don’t believe gets talked about enough - when it comes to soil health and deer plots, Browse removal.

 
I’ve got one 160 acre farm that is being browsed to the ground from heavy cattle pressure I’m not really thrilled with my tenents methods will see if any spraying gets done this summer if not I may get a diffrent pasture tenant.
 
Root growth would certainly come into play on perennial plots that are receiving more than moderate grazing/browsing pressure. Yes, roots are important for soil health, but as was discussed recently on a couple of different podcasts if you are looking to build quality soil then you just need to plant into native plants and not allow anything more than light grazing to stimulate constant growth. If your primary goal for food plotting or ag crop production is healthy soil then you are going about it all wrong. Certainly not saying that abusing what soil you have is a good thing. Just that the hype about "building better soil" by planting something in it has been way over done in recent years. One thing that drives me bonkers about Grant's comments on Growing Deer TV is that he is building better soil in places that have "poor" or no soil. Soil takes 100s if not 1000s of years to make, ask any soil scientist. You don't create soil by just planting a certain cover crop on it one year.
 
Last edited:
Turkey Creek said:
Root growth would certainly come into play on perennial plots that are receiving more than moderate grazing/browsing pressure. Yes, roots are important for soil health, but as was discussed recently on a couple of different podcasts if you are looking to build quality soil then you just need to plant into native plants and not allow anything more than light grazing to stimulate constant growth. If your primary goal for food plotting or ag crop production is healthy soil then you are going about it all wrong. Certainly not saying that abusing what soil you have is a good thing. Just that the hype about "building better soil" by planting something in it has been way over done in recent years. One thing that drives me bonkers about Grant's comments on Growing Deer TV is that he building better soil in places that have "poor" or no soil. Soil takes 100s if not 1000s of years to make, ask any soil scientist. You don't create soil by just planting a certain cover crop on it one year.
Click to expand...

Interesting post!
1. Sure native perennials are fantastic at building soils and sequestering carbon. This is through their vast root growth and massive amount of root exudation. Also, in native plantings, the benefit is extreme diversity which is further driving the microbial diversity in the soil, specifically fungi - over time due to the lack of disruption. Light to moderate grazing is amazingly beneficial, not only from a growth-stimulating effect but also from microbial diversity that is being added to the soil through animals' urine, feces, etc.
2. The long rate to build soil has been disproven. This was the traditional thought. However, it has been well documented by guys like Dale Strickland and others, to improve it FAR faster, through managed grazing and highly diverse mixes, etc. Much of the reason this was previously not understood, was our misunderstanding of the microbial biomass, and in general the functions of C: N ratios and how those impact our soil's active OM and stable OM over time. As these all increase, better water infiltration occurs, and the impact is exponential.
3. I will agree with you that it is been overpromised and underdelivered over the past several years. This is why I try my best to share as much detailed information as possible, whether someone uses Vitalize Seed or not - so that folks can understand the processes in the ways the soil functions. I love coming up with plans to best help the function of a farmer or food plotter vs. just promising some grandiose idea. This is somewhat the reason I made the above video, if the plots are being mowed to the ground - we have lost photosynthetic capture and root exudation - this is going to have a big impact on our ability to improve soil function - specifically from a microbial biomass perspective.

I think a larger focus should be on what we can visually see in the aggregate formation, CO2 burst n a test, and if we want we can do PLFA testing to further measure the biology that is impacting our soils both from a structure and nutrient cycling perspective. This is going to reduce input needs, increase carbon storage in the soil, increase root exudation, increase microbial diversity, and grow some darn good plots, gardens, AG fields, etc.

All of this should start with sound soil testing, PH adjustment, base saturation adjustment, and possible inoculations to help aid in creating the healthiest soils we can. I don't believe in going cold turkey on inputs, I think that is often misunderstood. We need biomass both in roots, and leaf production.

In 10 years, I have visually and statistically (on soil tests) watched my soils in the foothills of Appalachia turn from hard, compacted, dry, red-looking clay - to something much closer to dark chocolate cake, with amazing root/mycorrhizae visibly present.

Here is one example from a couple of years ago - this field was hard clay

Here is my garden - this was originally a fescue/rye grain lawn. Low area with compaction and almost no color. In a few years of cover cropping, keeping a living root going, and reducing inputs - it turned into the below.

I hope this helps and is at least interesting to you all if nothing else.
 
Last edited:
Buckhunter10 said:
Interesting post!
1. Sure native perennials are fantastic at building soils and sequestering carbon. This is through their vast root growth and massive amount of root exudation. Also, in native plantings, the benefit is extreme diversity which is further driving the microbial diversity in the soil, specifically fungi - over time due to the lack of disruption. Light to moderate grazing is amazingly beneficial, not only from a growth-stimulating effect but also from microbial diversity that is being added to the soil through animals' urine, feces, etc.
2. The long rate to build soil has been disproven. This was the traditional thought. However, it has been well documented by guys like Dale Strickland and others, to improve it FAR faster, through managed grazing and highly diverse mixes, etc. Much of the reason this was previously not understood, was our misunderstanding of the microbial biomass, and in general the functions of C: N ratios and how those impact our soil's active OM and stable OM over time. As these all increase, better water infiltration occurs, and the impact is exponential.
3. I will agree with you that it is been overpromised and underdelivered over the past several years. This is why I try my best to share as much detailed information as possible, whether someone uses Vitalize Seed or not - so that folks can understand the processes in the ways the soil functions. I love coming up with plans to best help the function of a farmer or food plotter vs. just promising some grandiose idea. This is somewhat the reason I made the above video, if the plots are being mowed to the ground - we have lost photosynthetic capture and root exudation - this is going to have a big impact on our ability to improve soil function - specifically from a microbial biomass perspective.

I think a larger focus should be on what we can visually see in the aggregate formation, CO2 burst n a test, and if we want we can do PLFA testing to further measure the biology that is impacting our soils both from a structure and nutrient cycling perspective. This is going to reduce input needs, increase carbon storage in the soil, increase root exudation, increase microbial diversity, and grow some darn good plots, gardens, AG fields, etc.

All of this should start with sound soil testing, PH adjustment, base saturation adjustment, and possible inoculations to help aid in creating the healthiest soils we can. I don't believe in going cold turkey on inputs, I think that is often misunderstood. We need biomass both in roots, and leaf production.

In 10 years, I have visually and statistically (on soil tests) watched my soils in the foothills of Appalachia turn from hard, compacted, dry, red-looking clay - to something much closer to dark chocolate cake, with amazing root/mycorrhizae visibly present.

Here is one example from a couple of years ago - this field was hard clay

Here is my garden - this was originally a fescue/rye grain lawn. Low area with compaction and almost no color. In a few years of cover cropping, keeping a living root going, and reducing inputs - it turned into the below.

I hope this helps and is at least interesting to you all if nothing else.
Click to expand...
It is far easier to improve existing soil than to build soil, maybe we are just splitting hairs in the above conversation in the use of terminology "building vs improving". When I say build soil (I guess I would actually be more accurate by saying "creating" soil), I am talking about taking parent rock base material and turning it into something that can sustain a wide range of plant and microbial life. "Rocks" in themselves are not soil, but over time make up a portion of the soil triangle - mineral particles, organic matter and pore space. Yes microbes and other living organisms contribute to the building of soil and make it easier for plants to take up "recycled" nutrients. I see improving soil such as taking your previously farmed fields from a red clay into a darker soil with a better structure and higher organic matter levels only as improving the soil from its previous condition. Sure Grant can argue that he is building soil, but not in any measurable way on a single year time line. Maybe the use of proper terminology is not of importance to his viewers, I just find it misleading to the consumer that thinks they are "building/ creating soil" in any truly measurable quantity if they plant a certain seed or blend. Not in any real sense of the word, and if their plotting or farming practices are causing erosion then they are likely losing more than they are "building". The most fertile and productive soils in the US had nothing but NWSG and forbs growing on them for the last several hundred or more years.
 
Turkey Creek said:
It is far easier to improve existing soil than to build soil, maybe we are just splitting hairs in the above conversation in the use of terminology "building vs improving". When I say build soil (I guess I would actually be more accurate by saying "creating" soil), I am talking about taking parent rock base material and turning it into something that can sustain a wide range of plant and microbial life. "Rocks" in themselves are not soil, but over time make up a portion of the soil triangle - mineral particles, organic matter and pore space. Yes microbes and other living organisms contribute to the building of soil and make it easier for plants to take up "recycled" nutrients. I see improving soil such as taking your previously farmed fields from a red clay into a darker soil with a better structure and higher organic matter levels only as improving the soil from its previous condition. Sure Grant can argue that he is building soil, but not in any measurable way on a single year time line. Maybe the use of proper terminology is not of importance to his viewers, I just find it misleading to the consumer that thinks they are "building/ creating soil" in any truly measurable quantity if they plant a certain seed or blend. Not in any real sense of the word, and if their plotting or farming practices are causing erosion then they are likely losing more than they are "building". The most fertile and productive soils in the US had nothing but NWSG and forbs growing on them for the last several hundred or more years.
Click to expand...
Although some might see that as splitting hairs - I think it’s a great point.

I think that the entire idea behind OM is often misleading. As is the idea of making something out of nothing. I’ve really tried to blend standard agronomic practices and “regen” ag when speaking with growers. I’ve learned this through many far smarter than myself- that I’ve been fortunate to work with.

We can have high OM and yet still dysfunctional systems.

I certainly believe and have witnessed massive increases in soil health and stability. Also in nutrient availability- primarily through the focus on fungi in soils (these are breaking down rock).

All that to say - I don’t ever want to speak poorly of Dr. Grant or anyone else, for that matter.

I will speak for myself in that I greatly appreciate your take as I believe it’s helped me to be even more cautious in my word choice.

Although, not to dilute my own mission of helping folks get excited about soil health and improving one acre at a time. As we certainly can have massive improvements on soil structure and OM - over time.

I’m currently reading a book by Nicole masters - I really enjoy it. They take highly degraded soils and make some huge improvements to them. However, not solely through cover crops. They talk about fish fert, vermi cast, etc. cover crops and grazing mgt. do play a big roll.

All in all I think it’s best to get information from an eclectic as one’s sourcing will allow.

I hope that I play a small roll in helping at least a few folks along the way.

Thanks for he dialog!

Albert
 
I enjoy watching Dr. Woods "Growing Deer Tv" YouTube channel. I met Grant along time ago before he was famous. LOL He very well might say in conversation that his choice of words is not necessarily the best one. I am not saying he is intentionally misleading anyone. He is super knowledgeable, its just that many people are not well versed in anything habitat or soil related and therefore dont really question/ or stop to think about anything that they are told. I sell the same products he is promoting, just not necessarily for the same reason. I applaud anyone who is trying to help the world go about things in a better way.
 
Are there any studies or even personal stories about the change in organic matter in a field using these systems over time? I have some sandy soils that I would like to improve, so it would be nice to know what type of timeline is realistic for specific gains.

I have the best luck drawing deer in range with a sprayed soybean field, but I know that won't improve the soil. So I go with soybeans one year and a diverse green mixture the next year. I'm happy with the results, but I'm always looking for a better option.
 
Ben.MN/WI said:
Are there any studies or even personal stories about the change in organic matter in a field using these systems over time? I have some sandy soils that I would like to improve, so it would be nice to know what type of timeline is realistic for specific gains.

I have the best luck drawing deer in range with a sprayed soybean field, but I know that won't improve the soil. So I go with soybeans one year and a diverse green mixture the next year. I'm happy with the results, but I'm always looking for a better option.
Click to expand...
There are a lot of ag studies - specifically in cattle industry. Gabe brown, Ray a, Dale Strickland, Nicole masters, etc.

However, I don’t think the goal ought to be directly correlated to OM on a soil test. The better goal (imo) is to monitor soil structure, aggregation, color, tissue samples, fertility needs, water infiltration, etc.

I have not fertilized in years on my farm. My tissue tests improve - yet I am not increasing granular fertility. How is this happening - through biology and fungi - decomposing geology to make nutrients available. This is clear in the success- not only in observational appearance but also in quantitative metrics such as soil and tissue testing.

Now I am pushing limits with testing fish foliar sprays, seed inoculants, etc. just to see how far I can push the envelope.

All that to say - no one can tell you how long improvements will take on your farm without a lot more information.

What is the cec? What is the deer density? What is the planting methods used? Any fertility being used? Exclusion fences up?

In a no till system in light soils we want to try to stimulate mycorrhiza as fast as possible - this creates glomalin - this is a biotic glue that holds the soil together. We also need to be sure our chemical structure is sound with balancing our MG base saturations in the correct ratio.

If those are done and we are not having everything leave the field - we can do a lot - in fairly short order.

Hope this helps!
 
The good fungi - how it can help our soil structure!!

 
What I look at on a first soil test

 
Short G2 - 10 story.

 
Who’s ready for planting season?!

New podcast up with Habitat Podcast - new products!

podcasts.apple.com

‎Habitat Podcast: #259 - Thinking ahead to spring food plots, tweaking Nitro Boost, and a new product for 2024 with Al Tomechko of Vitalize Seed on Apple Podcasts

‎Show Habitat Podcast, Ep #259 - Thinking ahead to spring food plots, tweaking Nitro Boost, and a new product for 2024 with Al Tomechko of Vitalize Seed - Jan 19, 2024
podcasts.apple.com

IMG_8369.jpeg
 
"Who’s ready for planting season?!"

Not quite yet.
 

Attachments

  • 20240120_144716.jpg
    20240120_144716.jpg
    341.2 KB · Views: 15
I’m ready just waiting on the weather to catch up with my enthusiasm. I am tossing the idea of going up to my brothers this spring and maybe making some maple syrup this year idk yet if I will but it’s running around in my head this year.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

M
Switchgrass in SE Ohio
Replies
11
Views
511
Thetrooper
Thetrooper
Obie
Ohio small property
Replies
10
Views
1K
Obie
Obie
SnowWaterWhitetails
Food Plots in Hill Country
Replies
5
Views
421
bigboreblr
B
SnowWaterWhitetails
Pre-Emergent Herbicide prior to June Buckwheat
Replies
4
Views
291
bigboreblr
B
M
Rookie plot ?
Replies
10
Views
685
Bowsnbucks
B
Top