Growing Apples From Seed

[sandbur]

Bur - I didn't realize you had so many fruit trees !! I thought our camp's 75 or so was bad. At 92 trees, you have us beat, and we don't have 50 varieties either. We only have 35.

I don't think I've ever seen the picture angles of your place that show all the older, mature trees like the first pic above. Nice orchard.

These are the trees I mow around and take somewhat better care of. I have three other areas of apples on the farm , one of which is a single to triple row of trees almost 1/4 mile long.


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Rows of trees out back are in bloom.

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[sandbur]

Mostly seedlings in this enclosure.

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[sandbur]

Seedlings I received from my wife’s Grandma about 30 years ago. This was open pasture. Now I need to cut tag alders around them.

There is lots of buck sign in this area.

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[sandbur]

Another Grandma seedling.

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[PoorSand]

I spread pulverized dolomite lime a couple weeks after I got the soil test result. On this sand, lime neutralizes the soil pH fast, and the effect travels down through the soil surprisingly fast. To give some idea, I have a field that tested 5.7 in early October. I spread three tons of lime per acre, didn't till, and spring planted alfalfa, which is doing great.

Here's a photo of one of the trees that has a bunch of volunteers coming up in the brush pile beneath it, along with some of my soil shown in the foreground to give some idea of what the seeds found a home in easily.

 

[Telemark]

whats the fastest you have brought them back out of the fridge and had them germinate?

Here's a photo of what I mentioned before. I sometimes find Granny Smith seeds germinating IN the apple.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I've seen that type of thing too. I always wondered why / how this happens.

 

[Apple Junkie]

I spread pulverized dolomite lime a couple weeks after I got the soil test result. On this sand, lime neutralizes the soil pH fast, and the effect travels down through the soil surprisingly fast. To give some idea, I have a field that tested 5.7 in early October. I spread three tons of lime per acre, didn't till, and spring planted alfalfa, which is doing great.

Here's a photo of one of the trees that has a bunch of volunteers coming up in the brush pile beneath it, along with some of my soil shown in the foreground to give some idea of what the seeds found a home in easily.

Yikes! You come by your name honestly PoorSand. I won't be complaining about my ground anymore, but I'm impressed you have figured out how to compensate. Looks good!

 

[PoorSand]

Sandbur: Check out this photo. I'm getting root clippings to grow. They were originally floor sweepings when I got done potting whips this spring, and rather than throw them in the trash, I put them vertically into potting mix, often with an inch or two sticking out. In general, the ones 3/16" diameter or larger are working out the best for me. It seems to me it might work for propagating some of those fine seed-grown crabapple trees you have, without having to graft them.

 

[sandbur]

Sandbur: Check out this photo. I'm getting root clippings to grow. They were originally floor sweepings when I got done potting whips this spring, and rather than throw them in the trash, I put them vertically into potting mix, often with an inch or two sticking out. In general, the ones 3/16" diameter or larger are working out the best for me. It seems to me it might work for propagating some of those fine seed-grown crabapple trees you have, without having to graft them.

I have grown two from tiny pieces of root, but it took years. You are way ahead of the growth I saw.

Could you give any more details?
How long was the piece of root? I can also see I need thicker pieces.


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[sandbur]

Sandbur: Check out this photo. I'm getting root clippings to grow. They were originally floor sweepings when I got done potting whips this spring, and rather than throw them in the trash, I put them vertically into potting mix, often with an inch or two sticking out. In general, the ones 3/16" diameter or larger are working out the best for me. It seems to me it might work for propagating some of those fine seed-grown crabapple trees you have, without having to graft them.

This makes me want to go whack off some root sections of my swamp crab.


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[PoorSand]

More details? Okay.

Eight inches was a good combination for both viability and fitting into pop bottles. When I began noticing multiple ones in the same bottle with leaves yesterday, I looked through the plastic below the bottle labels and saw a lot of white roots. I separated the root clippings at that point. (First photo.)

Thirty-six of the root clippings were 3/16” – 1/4" in diameter and at least six inches long. Those were all M.111. The signs of life among that size range were about equally split between these groupings:

• White roots plus leaves
• White roots plus white stems pushing toward the surface
• White roots plus stem buds formed
• White roots plus exposed portion turned green, like a potato exposed to sunlight
• No sign of life

It seemed to make no difference which end of the root was pointed up. In fact, there was one long clipping that had been inserted in a U shape with both ends exposed and both ends are growing.

I also have a few Dolgo seedling tree root clippings growing. I picked trees that I wanted clones of and then looked for suckers. In some cases, the only suckers they had were dead, but I suspected that the dead suckers might still have viable secondary roots just below the soil surface. I clipped the dead sucker trunks off between the sucker’s own roots and the parent tree’s root and put those in pop bottles as well. (Second photo.)

Of course, I preferred viable suckers if the tree had them. (Third photo.)

I also have some Dolgo seedling trees growing that I dumped wood chips around last year. Some of those sent a multitude of white roots into the chips from their trunks. I shoveled some extra dirt on top of those this spring. I think any of those adventitious roots are fair game once they reach 1/4" diameter, whether they develop suckers or not.

I also have more floor sweeping root clippings in Walmart bag halves that are starting to push up growth now as well. (Fourth and fifth photos.) I need to get those moved into bottles soon, and then maybe cut back on the caffeinated pop.

 

[sandbur]

More details? Okay.

Eight inches was a good combination for both viability and fitting into pop bottles. When I began noticing multiple ones in the same bottle with leaves yesterday, I looked through the plastic below the bottle labels and saw a lot of white roots. I separated the root clippings at that point. (First photo.)

Thirty-six of the root clippings were 3/16” – 1/4" in diameter and at least six inches long. Those were all M.111. The signs of life among that size range were about equally split between these groupings:

• White roots plus leaves
• White roots plus white stems pushing toward the surface
• White roots plus stem buds formed
• White roots plus exposed portion turned green, like a potato exposed to sunlight
• No sign of life

It seemed to make no difference which end of the root was pointed up. In fact, there was one long clipping that had been inserted in a U shape with both ends exposed and both ends are growing.

I also have a few Dolgo seedling tree root clippings growing. I picked trees that I wanted clones of and then looked for suckers. In some cases, the only suckers they had were dead, but I suspected that the dead suckers might still have viable secondary roots just below the soil surface. I clipped the dead sucker trunks off between the sucker’s own roots and the parent tree’s root and put those in pop bottles as well. (Second photo.)

Of course, I preferred viable suckers if the tree had them. (Third photo.)

I also have some Dolgo seedling trees growing that I dumped wood chips around last year. Some of those sent a multitude of white roots into the chips from their trunks. I shoveled some extra dirt on top of those this spring. I think any of those adventitious roots are fair game once they reach 1/4" diameter, whether they develop suckers or not.

I also have more floor sweeping root clippings in Walmart bag halves that are starting to push up growth now as well. (Fourth and fifth photos.) I need to get those moved into bottles soon, and then maybe cut back on the caffeinated pop.

I have to say that you have a green thumb.

The few root clippings I started were in a pot, under a Saran Wrap tent with a small hole in it for air flow.

It also looked like injuring the root stimulated growth much like what you here with plums.


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[sandbur]

I have one 30 plus year old chestnut crab that sends out root suckers up to 15 feet from the tree.

I have five or six I have dug and moved around. One now has apples and it will be interesting to see what I get. I have no idea what the rootstock is.


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[cavey]

I believe you can dig roots out and directly graft to them. I saw a video of someone - lopping up roots into 4 or 5 inch sections and grafting to those. They were doing them in mass and bedding them in damp sawdust filled boxes. I saw it on the internet so it must be true.

 

[PoorSand]

Here's one crabapple grown from seed that sends out roots from its trunk into woodchips, and then suckers come up, oftentimes right next to the trunk. This spring, I initially thought that the tree's suckers had grown directly from the trunk itself, but when I uncovered their bases, I discovered they had not and transplanted quite a few of them. It seems like removing those just made room for more to come up.

 

[PoorSand]

I added more apple tree seedlings to my maps today. I was out working on the trees and noticed more volunteers that had come up from seed. I put some old chicken wire around each of the ones that weren't growing in the way of anything else. If any of those 14 still look good this fall, I'll upgrade their protection then. On the other hand, 0 (not even 1) of the bag of 480 Antonovka seeds I bought on the internet and planted last fall ever sent up a shoot this spring.

 

[PoorSand]

I got around to checking some suckers with a different growth habit today. They came up from another tree grown from Dolgo seed. I dumped wood chips and sand over the suckers this spring. I stuck my fingers into the pile around a few today and could feel their new roots extending into the pile. This tree has grown like a weed, thrives on coarse sand, has a prolonged blossoming period spanning pollination groups 2 through 5, bears every year, and drops nearly all its fruit during the first two weeks of November. I'm pretty sure I can find room for its clones.

(Please ignore the bumper crop of ragweed I have this year. We've had a lot of rain and it's just nice to see anything at all that is green and growing under my trees.)

 

[sandbur]

I got around to checking some suckers with a different growth habit today. They came up from another tree grown from Dolgo seed. I dumped wood chips and sand over the suckers this spring. I stuck my fingers into the pile around a few today and could feel their new roots extending into the pile. This tree has grown like a weed, thrives on coarse sand, has a prolonged blossoming period spanning pollination groups 2 through 5, bears every year, and drops nearly all its fruit during the first two weeks of November. I'm pretty sure I can find room for its clones.

(Please ignore the bumper crop of ragweed I have this year. We've had a lot of rain and it's just nice to see anything at all that is green and growing under my trees.)

How deep were those wood chips?


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[sandbur]

I am less and less impressed with antanovka and favor dolgo seedlings for rootstock.

Is antanovka rootstock also grown from seed?


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