Future Stud

[phil@thesidehill]

I had been worried that this guy had moved on or been killed because i haven't seen him since the season ended...until now! This buck had thrown me for a loop since i started getting pics of him in the fall. His body indicates he is a young deer...but his headgear is just WAYYYYY bigger than other bucks in his age class that i ever seen in my neighborhood, let alone anywhere else in NE PA. I know Steve B said he would put good money on him being a 2 yr old in the previous pics i posted of him. Now i have a whole of pics of him from all angles. Curious to hear some other thoughts on age and score even. He just has so much interesting character to his antlers....I'm really hoping i can find his sheds!

 

[Native Hunter]

He's a beauty, and I would say 2 also. Hope you can keep him around.

If you build him one of those buck beds, I would get an expensive Sleep Number Mattresses for a prospect like that...:D

 

[phil@thesidehill]

He's a beauty, and I would say 2 also. Hope you can keep him around.

If you build him one of those buck beds, I would get an expensive Sleep Number Mattresses for a prospect like that...:D

I'll roll out the red carpet for this dude....hoping he sticks around till next season!

 

[phil@thesidehill]

NICE! Its so cool you guys get pictures of the same animals year after year watching them grow up.

In 8 years of hunting/managing/running cams on this property I have only had 3 bucks that I've had multiple year history with. Seems like most years I have several different batches of bucks throughout the course of the year with very little to no carry over.

 

[scott44]

Great looking buck! Hope he sticks around for you, I also don't have very many bucks that I can say for sure they are the same from the year before.

 

[phil@thesidehill]

Great looking buck! Hope he sticks around for you, I also don't have very many bucks that I can say for sure they are the same from the year before.

I really hope this guy sticks around too...it seems like he could really blow up into something crazy! For now I just really want to find his sheds...those crab claws are insane! Looks like they have several different points and splits that could really look cool next year!

 

[dipper]

Just a few "s on a tine or two, some girth, and a little more spread he would really get me excited.....wait what am I thinking about?

 

[phil@thesidehill]

Just a few "s on a tine or two, some girth, and a little more spread he would really get me excited.....wait what am I thinking about?

I guess it all depends on the context dipper....lol.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

I'll stick with my original statement. Just cover the antlers in your first pic (scroll until they disappear), and look at how skinny the neck is and long the legs look. Antlers lie a heck of a lot more than body characteristics (body characterizes can too, but no where near as much as antlers). I still think 2.5 is a real safe bet. You have yourself a deer to get really excited about there (long, skinny times, no mass and a bunch of points, all literally screaming potential growth).

 

[TMIL]

Phil, good luck finding the sheds this year. And next year. And then harvesting him in the future!

 

[phil@thesidehill]

I'll stick with my original statement. Just cover the antlers in your first pic (scroll until they disappear), and look at how skinny the neck is and long the legs look. Antlers lie a heck of a lot more than body characteristics (body characterizes can too, but no where near as much as antlers). I still think 2.5 is a real safe bet. You have yourself a deer to get really excited about there (long, skinny times, no mass and a bunch of points, all literally screaming potential growth).

First thing I did after reviewing the pics of him was take a pic of that first pic of him with my thumb covering the antlers and texted it to some friends asking their guesses on age. Most replied "young, 2 yr old, maybe even one. Only had one throw out 3 yr old. They all knew it was sort of "trick" question. I agree with you Steve the body screams 2 yr old....and I believe him to be....but he is the biggest two yr old antler wise that I have ever seen....I'm hoping he's a grower and not a just a shower....lol.

 

[j-bird]

I would guess him to be 2 or 3 - but I am not familiar with deer in your area. I think he needs to fill out body wise and when he does those antlers will as well. I think you have a great prospect there hopefully you can keep him around and get a good look at him during the season and then have to wrestle with that decision. As much as antlers can provide false information in my opinion they can help some in younger deer - now I say this based on you having a history with the deer in your area. I agree that the body is a better indicator, but I then tend to use the antlers as a tie breaker if I am not sure. That is why there is a chance I think your deer pictured could be 2 or 3. I am leaning more 3 than 2. Not trying to sound like a butt-head here, but if he is 2 he is a dandy, if he is 3 he is about par for the course in my area. This is where your experience level with your immediate deer herd is important. In either case he has real potential and is some cases some may even consider him a shooter (all depends on your goals and hunting experience level). Hopefully you find those sheds and can put the puzzle together.

 

[phil@thesidehill]

I would guess him to be 2 or 3 - but I am not familiar with deer in your area. I think he needs to fill out body wise and when he does those antlers will as well. I think you have a great prospect there hopefully you can keep him around and get a good look at him during the season and then have to wrestle with that decision. As much as antlers can provide false information in my opinion they can help some in younger deer - now I say this based on you having a history with the deer in your area. I agree that the body is a better indicator, but I then tend to use the antlers as a tie breaker if I am not sure. That is why there is a chance I think your deer pictured could be 2 or 3. I am leaning more 3 than 2. Not trying to sound like a butt-head here, but if he is 2 he is a dandy, if he is 3 he is about par for the course in my area. This is where your experience level with your immediate deer herd is important. In either case he has real potential and is some cases some may even consider him a shooter (all depends on your goals and hunting experience level). Hopefully you find those sheds and can put the puzzle together.

all excellent points J-Bird! I also tend to put antler development relative to estimated age class in the tie breaker position. I may have pics of this deer last year. About mid january last year i started getting pics of a half shed buck. the antler that was on his head had 5 typical points and had a similar frame to the buck in this post, but the body indicated he was a very young deer, 2 or most likely less. In both cases (the deer from last year and this deer) the body characteristics were so polar opposite of antler development relative to the age class. For this deer to be a 2 yr old he would be light years beyond his cohorts.....and he would be at the upper end of most 3 yr olds in terms of antler development for my area.

as far as green lighting him goes....several factors are at play. I'm only working on 10 acres...so "holding" him is completely out of the question....we all know holding bucks on properties 20 to even 50 times the size of mine isnt always a likely possibility. So i have zero delusions of giving this deer "more time" to develop into the giant he could likely become in 2-3 more years. I have a significant amount of rifle pressure in my neighborhood....and getting bucks to 3 yrs or older is pretty difficult. truthfully, had he come in bow range this year he would have gotten an arrow flung at him without a second thought....but when i was getting pics of him this fall during our early archery season, i was so blinded by the antlers that I hadn't even given his relatively small body stature much thought....to me at the time...those antlers couldn't possibly have been on a 2 yr old in this area. but as archery season ended and i had tagged another buck (ended up being a 2 yr old) and the pics of this buck kept coming in, i began to look at that body much more critically and began to wonder....if he could actually be a "super 2". If he sticks around for next archery season he is green lighted...a 3 yr old around here is about as old as i can realistically hold out for and still stand a chance of ever taking a shot at a buck.....and even then i am going to have seasons where i dont kill a buck let alone shoot at one...but i am ok with that. I feel a goal of a 3 yr old is realistic for me, my skill set, my property, and my neighborhood.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Do you put out any minerals, Phil? We put some out at my camp and I also did at an undisclosed location in a very remote area to see what would happen antler-wise. Personally, I think it helped. Any additional nutrition is a plus. If trying to grow him bigger, it's a thought. What convinced me was the remote location I tried. No ag around for miles and yet with the same browse, body and antler size got better. With food plots - even better things happen.

 

[phil@thesidehill]

Do you put out any minerals, Phil? We put some out at my camp and I also did at an undisclosed location in a very remote area to see what would happen antler-wise. Personally, I think it helped. Any additional nutrition is a plus. If trying to grow him bigger, it's a thought. What convinced me was the remote location I tried. No ag around for miles and yet with the same browse, body and antler size got better. With food plots - even better things happen.

i personally haven't ever put much stock in minerals providing a tangible increase in antler or body size....but i do believe it doesn't hurt. Trace minerals especially...they are an integral part of the animals overall health....and if they can benefit even the slightest bit then its a plus in my book. I use a trophy rock...its on the cinder blocks in the pics of this deer. I like them because they seem to last a really long time and dont involve the deer eating mouthfuls of dirt. I have also found that putting the rock up on the cinder blocks i can reduce the amount of leaching into the soil so that as season approaches i can remove it and not have to worry about completely removing "all residues" as the game commission requires before the hunting season.

 

[j-bird]

Phil - your history with this deer and your deer in general is where you have the insight we don't. I figured the deer pictured was 3 but again just my opinion. It can also be difficult to track the same buck - the antlers can change and some do while others don't - especially a younger buck. Once they reach 3 or 4 I think they tend to retain and express their antler properties. I would bet his next antlers will keep those crab claws.

As far as passing him - thats your choice. I have always promoted the individual choice - now if you want 4 & 5 year olds and kill every 3 year old you see, then you need to realize the result of your actions. That holds true for bucks and does - shot or don't shot is a management decision, like it or not. I am in the same boat as you in not holding bucks - I have 3 bucks on the wall and had never seen any of them before the hunt where they met their end. I have no issues passing bucks, but I am not going to have any expectation of seeing him again.

You have a good one there - hopefully you get a chance at him and then you can exercise your individual choice.

 

[phil@thesidehill]

Phil - your history with this deer and your deer in general is where you have the insight we don't. I figured the deer pictured was 3 but again just my opinion. It can also be difficult to track the same buck - the antlers can change and some do while others don't - especially a younger buck. Once they reach 3 or 4 I think they tend to retain and express their antler properties. I would bet his next antlers will keep those crab claws.

As far as passing him - thats your choice. I have always promoted the individual choice - now if you want 4 & 5 year olds and kill every 3 year old you see, then you need to realize the result of your actions. That holds true for bucks and does - shot or don't shot is a management decision, like it or not. I am in the same boat as you in not holding bucks - I have 3 bucks on the wall and had never seen any of them before the hunt where they met their end. I have no issues passing bucks, but I am not going to have any expectation of seeing him again.

You have a good one there - hopefully you get a chance at him and then you can exercise your individual choice.

All noted.

Of course i want 4 and 5 yr olds, but that is not a realistic expectation for my property size, location, and the general disposition of the neighborhood. Even if i laid off the 3 yr olds....the rest of the neighborhood will not. A very slim few of them will make it to 4 and even fewer will make it to 5. In 8 years on this property i can count on one hand the number of 3 yr old or older bucks i have seen from stand and that resulted in only 3 shot opps (all three shot opps were 3 yr olds). In the last 2 yrs i have had two bonafide 5 yr olds on camera....only one of them was even remotely close to being killable for me on my property...and that was when he was 4 yr old...i almost killed him as a 3 yr old....3 more steps is all i needed him to take to get in a shooting lane....that didnt happen and I was able to find sheds from him and get pics of him for 2 more years. He may still be alive...but he hasnt shown up on cam and i havent seen him with my own eyes since he was a 4 yr old. The other deer is a 5 yr old this year...and as far as i can tell (trail cam pics and observation on stand) he has never set foot on my property during daylight hours....and he doesnt start to show up untill there are only a few days left of the season....so I'm not holding out on him. But as you have mentioned...there is always the wildcard of the rut. In fact i have pretty much designed the layout of the property to capitalize on the randomness of the rut. I have made the place into a place the ladies frequent during daylight hours...during the rut. The 3 yr old 8 point i killed two years ago was complete stranger....he took an arrow through his heart within 30 seconds of me ever laying eyes on him...he came in following the scent of a doe that had come through about 45 mins earlier.

This buck's body being as under developed as it appears would make me believe that if he was a 3 yr old, he wouldn't have the antlers he has....i would think they would be deficient as well....because he would most likely have to be in some measure of poor health to be that under developed as 3 yr old and thus impacting his antler growth.

Agreed that most times its easier to track bucks by antlers from 3 on, i've a couple 2 yr olds that were identifiable again as 3 yr old based on antler characteristics....not in this particular area and property. When I lived and hunted in the 'burbs and a friend and i were after a monster of a buck....the knob knee buck....he had some sort of injury to his front left leg at the knee joint that healed as a big knob and his hoof was turned inward. He was easily identifiable with and with out antlers because of the knee. You could also tell where he had walked often times because the turned in hoof left a unique print. He was an old deer and we both spent 4 yrs after him....my buddy finally caught up to him 2 months after i had moved out of the area. He was believed to be 7 or 8 yrs old when he was killed. He was either a 3 yr old or 4 yr old the first year we had noticed him. His rack was a basic 9 point frame (4 right, 5 left) with all sorts of stickers, kickers etc off his G's and 3's. The 3rd yr we were after him, he had NONE of the stickers, kickers etc and he was perfectly smooth, he also went to 5 pts right and 4 left. Had it not been for the knob knee we would have thought it was the same deer. the fourth and final year he went back to being 4 right, 5 left and having all of the extras....he scored 161" and change....his mass was unreal.

 

[Jeff23]

Phil, I would bet that deer is two. I can't see anything that says 3 except the rack, and that is a good problem to have! I hope he becomes a totally predictable homebody for you!

 

[phil@thesidehill]

Phil, I would bet that deer is two. I can't see anything that says 3 except the rack, and that is a good problem to have! I hope he becomes a totally predictable homebody for you!

Thanks...I hope so too!

 

[Satchmo]

I say he'll be 3 in April and he has a lot of potential to blow up for you Phil.