Seguins - Dwarf Chinese Chestnuts question - Transfered from QDMA forum

[yoderjac]

These are the blight resistant cousin to the Allegheny Chinquapin. The scientific name is Castanea Seguinii.
Have any of you grown these from nuts? If so I have a question:
Do these require cold stratification?
I've grown Allegheny Chinquapins from nuts and I know they do not require cold stratification. In fact, it is difficult to delay germination. Germination can be slowed a bit by cold storage.
I ordered the seed from F. W. Schumacher. Their web site says they require 60 days of stratification, but I'm not sure whether to believe that. I'd like to hear from anyone with first hand experience.
Finally, I was pretty successful growing the ACs in rootmakers last year but I killed a bunch because I started them early and tried to force dormancy. Those that I didn't try to force into dormancy did well. For those who have grown seguins from nuts, are there any differences in growing Seguins that I should be aware of beyond the basics of growing ACs?
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

I had better luck with the sequins than I ever had with A Chinq's. I stratified them just like my other chestnuts. They sent a radical about the same time as the chestnuts from what I remember. They were pretty easy! I dont think you will have any problems with them at all.

 

[yoderjac]

Anyone else growing Seguins or Allegheny Chinquapins from nuts?
I also found a guy who is supposed to send me some DCO so I went back and read the sticky on those. Blitz suggests vernalizing these after they put out radicles but before they put up top growth. The thread says this isn't absolutely required but trees grow the best if vernalized.
I wonder if this is true for Seguins and AC as well? I'm considering buying a couple of RM 32s for this purpose and using my fridge.
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

What is vernalize???

Vernalization is going through the process of winter or a simulated winter. Some nuts like chestnuts require cold stratification before they will germinate. Other nuts like DCO and most white oaks germinate immediately in the fall but in nature go through winter before they put up top growth.
Last year I planted over 100 ACs in RM18s but I didn't have room to transplant them into larger containers over the winter. I transplanted a few of them into 1 gal RB2s and kept them growing under lights, but I tried to force the rest into dormancy. I tried removing some of the leaf mass and slowly introduce them to cold weather to force dormancy. Basically, I lost all that I tried to force into dormancy. The few I did transplant into 1 gal RB2s, I kept through the summer and will plant this week. They seemed to stall out in terms of growth. I think this was because the growing season was too long. I'm sure they will survive, but I think I can do better. I think the problem is that the 12-16 weeks they last in 18s is not long enough for them to harden off properly.
Trying to keep them from germinating is a loosing battle. You can kill the nuts if they dry out and if they are moist in the fridge they produce root radicles. So, I was thinking of buying a couple trays of RM 32s to experiment with. I'd plant the nuts in them and put the entire try in the fridge. I'd take them out and water them from time to time since the low humidity of a fridge will dry them out. Staying in the cold and dark should prevent top growth. I would keep trays in the fridge for 1 month, 2 months, and 3 months and see which trees did best. I would then take them out and grow them under lights.

I've got about 80 AC's, either direct-seeded at their permanent location, a temporary direct-seeding (including some in my raised bed garden), two RM18's, and some deep tree bands.
The RM18's seem to be developing mold. So far the deep bands are ok, though I did them most recently. I haven't checked those direct-seeded at their permanent location, but the ones in my garden are obviously putting down a healthy radicle. Moreso than those in the RM18's for sure. It's still early in the process, but I'm leaning heavily toward saying direct-seeding will have the best results.
Don't know if that helps, but that's my experiences so far.

Interesting. I had no mold issues with my ACs in 18s last year. I'd love to see some pictures as your different methods progress.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

I just thought I'd resurrect this thread to see if anyone else is trying to start these from nuts this year.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

I am as well if Schumacher comes through with the nuts.
Did you already receive yours?

No. I ordered in September and they said they would be in in December. I called the last week of December and they told me they expect them in the first two weeks of January.
They have a reputation for delay after delay. Worst case, I'll direct seed them in the spring.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Ive got a maybe a dozen (I think less) that I will be trying to start here in another few weeks......time will tell how they do!

Are you cold stratifying them? The Schumacher web site where I ordered them says they need to be cold stratified for a minimum of 60 days. I'm trying to figure out if that is really true or if they just lifted that from the chestnut page since they call them Dwarf Asian Chestnut. My understanding is that they are closely related to Allegheny Chinquapins. I know ACs don't require any cold stratification.
I'm planning on putting most of them in the fridge if I must but taking a few and trying to germinate them immediately. I would prefer to hear from someone who has tried growing them from nuts to find out if the cold stratification is necessary.
Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Jack,
I had one Sequin Tree Bear the 1st year. I got to thinking about it and went to check the burs. I have 2 nuts that have been in my fridge.
Two for two would be great, I would settle for one tree out of two nuts.
I only had a 5" mesh tube on these. In had four planted together, one died but the other three did well. I think if I had of been more watchful, I might have been able to get more than 2 nuts.
I imagine these two get the most attention of anything I try to this go round. :)

 

[yoderjac]

Yes they have been in the fridge about 54 days by my count.
I am treating them like a chestnut. Would really like to get at least one seedling out of two - my first attempt.

Have you been checking them in the fridge? Have you seen any signs of root radicle development so far?

 

[yoderjac]

I checked 3 times in the last 7 days.
I will let you know if they pop.

Same as Wayne. ......in cold storage for now!

 

[yoderjac]

Jack,
I have a fridge full of stuff to coax into germination. I have 100 Sawtooth Oak from LLC out on a TV Tray since yesterday. Out of 101 and only 1 floated after 10 hours.
I think I will call Alan at the Wildlife Group and let him advise me on the sequins.

If you talk to him, please specifically ask if they really require cold stratification like chestnuts or will sprout without it like Allegheny Chinquapins then post his advice.
Speaking of Alan and the Wildlife group, I forgot to post my latest faux pas. When I was planting my Dunstan chestnuts, I forgot to look at what I wrote on the bags. The AU Buck IV nuts got planted by accident and thus not marked. So, 4 of those that I have labeled as dunstans are actually from AU Buck IVs.

Thanks,
jack

 

[yoderjac]

:rolleyes:
I also have too many nuts to keep up with.

Add me to that list too!

 

[yoderjac]

Guys, I put mine in the fridge with all of my others. They sent out a radical about the same time the AC's did.

Very interesting. I expected them to act more like ACs than chestnut but I wasn't sure. If I don't get ACs in the fridge within a week or so from picking them from the tree, if they are kept damp, they will produce root radicles. I was hoping this would be the same for Seguins. Cold slows down my ACs but they don't need it to germinate like chestnuts.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

No. I ordered in September and they said they would be in in December. I called the last week of December and they told me they expect them in the first two weeks of January.
They have a reputation for delay after delay. Worst case, I'll direct seed them in the spring.
Thanks,
Jack

Well, they missed the mid January date. I called today and they are now saying mid-February.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Are you serious! I am waiting on an order of Henri. They told me jan/feb. I hate to , but I am going to email them for an update.

It is not that surprising. I knew their history when I ordered. They get these directly from China. There are always collection and shipping issues. Who knows what quality the seed will be. I bought an entire pound of seed hoping to get enough good trees to work with.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Jack,
Don't expect much then you'll be pleasantly surprised when and if you do get them. They probably won't be clean and there will probably be trash, dirt, leaves in the bag. No telling how they were stored. They won't be float tested either and when you put them in the refrigerator you may or may not find worms in the bag when you go back to check on them. That's been my experience with them. But hey.. they were cheap...
Matt

It wasn't price that took me there, it was the only place I could find them offered.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Well, I was going to give up today and cancel my order. I called in and to my surprise they said that were in transit from the source to them. They should receive them in 2 weeks so I should see them in about 3 weeks.
Now I have to figure out what to do with them. I'll probably direct seed some and try to grow some in rootmakers outside. I'll probably have more seed than I can handle. I guess we will seen when it arrives. I ordered a pound but if they are in poor condition I may need many to get a few trees.
I'll report back when they arrive.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Jack,
If you have a surplus, I would ask first dibbs on buying some from you.
Just let me know. I sure hope they do well for you.
Wayne

Will let you know when they arrive.

 

[yoderjac]

Well Hot dang! I am going to call them tomorrow. I am not sure about cold strat my seeds as well... I ordered the Henri. Might be a June - July sprout! hahah

Yep, you might be in worse shape. I believe Henri are actually a chestnut variety that does require cold stratification. Given your experience with Seguins acting like ACs, I don't plan to cold stratify them.

 

[yoderjac]

I would be interested in a couple of surplus seeds also, but no more 5 or so...