Seguin - Chestnut Experiment (and request)

[Shedder]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/272120753285618/permalink/558386767992347/

FYI facebook guy looking to cross sequins for hunters.





Chilles Chestnuts
Visual Storyteller · Yesterday at 12:55 PM
These little open pollinated Seguin seedlings are gonna be fun to play with ! Get ready hunters for some cool crosses !

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Ron Grzywacz What traits are you trying to breed for hunters?ManageLike · Reply · 1d

Chilles Chestnuts Ron Grzywacz lots of nuts, you will see soonManageLike · Reply · 1d

Chilles Chestnuts Ron Grzywacz longer drop timesManageLike · Reply · 1d

Chilles Chestnuts And size deer like, even a fawn can eat. I've seen fawn have hard time trying to eat large chestnuts1ManageLike · Reply · 1d

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Kevin Krzeminski Good Luck. Sounds like a great project.ManageLike · Reply · 23h

 

[yoderjac]

It is hard to tell from the pictures but those nuts look like henri verses Seguinii. Which does he call Seguins?

 

[yoderjac]

Well, it has been a full month since I did the first set of Seguin to Dunstan nut grafts. So, I decided to take them out of the plastic bags and put them in 18s and the tray in my mister. Even though the second set won't be in the bags a month until the 24th, I decided to move them all at once.

Of the 18 only one looks like it had a chance of success:

It has roots and a green bud. One had no roots and mold and the nut was soft. I culled that one. All of the other nuts in the first batch had roots. Two of them had no green buds and had put of top growth. Those will be Dunstans if I don't cull them later. The rest in the first batch had roots with no green buds yet.

In the second group none had green buds and none had put up any shoots. Most had roots. A few had no roots yet but the nuts were solid and showed no signs of mold.

So I ended up with 17 in a tray and in my mister:

I set the mister to mist for 1 minute every hour. I hope this enough to keep them at the right humidity level.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

For those interested in Seguin, I just spoke to Alan at the Wildlife group. He said they have not had much success growing them from seed in the greenhouse and that is why they are not selling them this year. He expects to have some available next year.

 

[TreeDaddy]

Just curious,Where all he get them?

bill

 

[yoderjac]

Just curious,Where all he get them?

bill

If you are talking about Alan, the Wildlife Group licensed the AU Encore patent. Chestnuts are difficult to graft and reasonably true to seed, so it is probably not commercially viable to sell grafted trees for wildlife. It may make sense for commercial nut production for human consumption since nut quality is a premium and they can afford to pay more for grafted trees since they are making money from them. If you look at the catalog from the Wildlife Group from a few years ago when they were selling them, they sell them as simply Castanea Seguinii, Not AU Encore. That is because they are not clonal copies but seedlings. I presume they just got enough grafted trees for their own nut production purposes.

If you are talking about the few nuts I got, they came from a guy that just has a few Castanea Seguinii trees who gave me scions. He was kind enough to send me 4 cold stratified nuts.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

There is some good and bad news for my seguins. The nut grafting does not look promising. The one that had the green bud is not dead yet, but nothing else is showing any signs of life. The good news is with the seedlings. I scraped a little medium off the cell with the 4th seguin that had not shown top growth yet. I could see a tap root, so I'm not counting it out yet.

I decided to do an early transplant of the largest seguin seedling. As you can see, the tap root is pruned but there is very few lateral roots yet:

Here it is after the transplant:

Thanks,

Jack

 

[cavey]

Very cool... all of it

 

[yoderjac]

I'm going to let the nut grafts in the mister stay for another week or so, but I think the nut grafting is a failure. The one with the green bud has now turned brown. I'm sure some failed because of poor technique, but I'm guessing incompatibility between Seguins and Dustan was a big factor as well.

On the up side, the 3 seguin seedlings are doing very well!

 

[TreeDaddy]

Well, it has been a full month since I did the first set of Seguin to Dunstan nut grafts. So, I decided to take them out of the plastic bags and put them in 18s and the tray in my mister. Even though the second set won't be in the bags a month until the 24th, I decided to move them all at once.

Of the 18 only one looks like it had a chance of success:

It has roots and a green bud. One had no roots and mold and the nut was soft. I culled that one. All of the other nuts in the first batch had roots. Two of them had no green buds and had put of top growth. Those will be Dunstans if I don't cull them later. The rest in the first batch had roots with no green buds yet.

In the second group none had green buds and none had put up any shoots. Most had roots. A few had no roots yet but the nuts were solid and showed no signs of mold.

So I ended up with 17 in a tray and in my mister:

I set the mister to mist for 1 minute every hour. I hope this enough to keep them at the right humidity level.

Thanks,

Jack

"The lack of humilty before nature thats being displayed here,uh.....staggers me......" Dr Ian Malcolm 1993

sorry,Jack......couldn't resist

bill

 

[yoderjac]

"The lack of humilty before nature thats being displayed here,uh.....staggers me......" Dr Ian Malcolm 1993

sorry,Jack......couldn't resist

bill

Great quote and very applicable! One of the things I'm learning over the years is that when I smartly bend nature slightly to favor deer or whatever the target species is, I usually have a lot of long-term success. The more I try to bend nature to my will, the higher the cost and the less benefit I see!

I did not expect much from this going in. I really wanted to try seguins again and since I was done with Schumacher, I didn't really have a source for nuts or seedlings. That was the birth of the experiment. I'm slowly learning about nut grafting and getting further with each attempt. I got quite a few nuts producing roots this time and only one with mold. Last attempt every nut graft got mold and none produced roots. I now believe that if I have compatible scions and nuts, I could nut graft and have some success. Folks had warned me that Seguins don't like to graft to other chestnuts. The experience was well worth the effort for me regardless if I have no successful nut grafts.

On top of that, unexpected good things sometimes happen. In this case, the gentleman who sent me the scions also sent me 4 seguin nuts. Those have worked out very well so far, so it looks like I'll at least get a couple trees out of the effort!

Thanks,

Jack

 

[TreeDaddy]

The experience was well worth the effort for me regardless if I have no successful nut grafts.

.......the operative phrase

i applaud your passion,innovation,and perseverance

bill

 

[yoderjac]

I decided to do the early transplant to the other two "seguin" seedlings:

The three in the back are the transplanted seedlings. The tree in the 3 gal in the front is a seguin seedling I grew from a nut last winter. The reason I put seguin in quotes for the seedlings in the back is that I'm now having second thoughts.

I've only had success growing seguins from nuts one time and that was last winter. I then got some disease that killed all of the seedlings except the one in the 3 gal container in the picture above as well as the parent trees.

When I received the nuts this year, there were two bags with 4 nuts each. One bag was Chinese and the other seguins according to the kind gentleman who sent them to me. I'm now wondering if I got them mixed up. Only one that I marked Chinese has germinated and 3 of the 4 I marked Seguin germinated. I was amazed at the great growth of the ones marked seguin compared to the ones I grew the previous year. I'm now thinking I got the nuts mixed up and only one is a seguin. It has tiny leaves. At first, I presumed it was some mold issue or the medium was too wet for too long that caused it. I'm now thinking it might actually be the Seguin!

Here is a pic:

When I look at the leaves on this and the new leaves starting on the seguin from last year, I'm beginning to believe I have 3 nice Chinese and 1 little Seguin.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Jack

 

[TreeDaddy]

i agree with you ,Jack( 3 chinese and 1 baby Seguin)

Mine are outdoors and starting to break bud here (starting the second leaf) and similar in appearance to the baby tree in front of first pic

i will take a few pics tomorrow and send for comparison

bill

 

[yoderjac]

i agree with you ,Jack( 3 chinese and 1 baby Seguin)

Mine are outdoors and starting to break bud here (starting the second leaf) and similar in appearance to the baby tree in front of first pic

i will take a few pics tomorrow and send for comparison

bill

You would know. Right now, you're the only one I know having significant success growing Seguins from nuts!

Thanks,

jack

 

[yoderjac]

Well, I grew these out on my deck this year. They were very slow growers compared to the Dunstan chestnuts I've grown in the past. After a full year of growth they are not more than about 18" tall. I'll need to take a picture when I get a chance. I still can't decide if one of them is a seguin or not. One has similar branching to the one known seguin I have. It is on the deck as well. It produced catkins and husks, but the nuts were shriveled and non-viable. I presume because it was young and self-pollinated.

I plan to overwinter them all. If one of the three really is a seguin, I would expect it to produce catkins and husks like the one known seguin next year.

I checked the Wildlife Group catalog this year, but they don't have Seguins again this year. When I talked to Alan last year he said he thought the would have them this fall. I did a little searching and found that Oikos is selling them. They are not cheap with shipping, but it would be good to have a couple more on my deck for pollination and to experiment with so I ordered 2 of them. It sounds like they are small and potted which accounts for the shipping cost.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

I got the two trees from Oikos. Wow, they were tiny. Not quite what I expected. I put them in 3 gal RB2s but probably could have used 1 gals. I prefer 3 gals for overwintering because I don't have to water as often and they provide a bit more root insulation.

Here are the few things I grew this year from the Chestnut genus:

The one on the rear right is a seguin. It came from one of the nuts I got from my Wildlife Group seguins before they died. This was the second growing seas for it. NOte the growth form with lots of branching and long thin branches.

Two of the 3 in the front row are supposedly Chinese Chestnuts and one is a seguin. That is according to the guy who was nice enough to send me the nuts. Unless one of us mixed them up, the one one on the front right should be the seguin. To my eye, it looks like the other two have more of the growing characteristic of the seguin. I should know for sure next year. All of the seguins I've had have produced at lest catkins and husks in year 2 and Chinese take many more years. The other two in the rear are Allegheny Chinquapins.

So, if one of the three is actually a seguin and the two from Oikos survive, I should have 4 to play with next year. Unless, of course, if someone else with Seguins is kind enough to send me a few nuts this year.

Thanks,

Jack