Why no 18650 battery cameras?

[IkemanTx]

As i have dove off the deep end building small external battery packs for my cameras this winter, i got to thinking about something i think the trail camera industry has REALLY missed the boat on.

I know that smaller and smaller has been the go-to for trail cam manufacturers. With the increased quality and availability of 18650’s, the comparatively high battery capacities available, and 500+ charging cycles with only 20% capacity loss…..

Why on earth haven’t the major camera brands offered an 18650 camera advertising reduced overall operating costs? Top of the line 3,500 milliamp hour 18650’s can be found for about $7 a piece. Cameras could easily be made in a 3 battery, or 4 battery configuration depending on what voltage the manufacturer runs the internals on. (Most boards are run somewhere between 9-12 volts)

In comparison to energizer ultimate lithium, which also run 3500mah, but at 1.5v, you could run 3 of the 18650’s ($7/per) versus 6 of the AA ($1.50/per). The AA’s would be running dead on 9V at full charge (it would take 8 non-lithium AA’s for this same voltage) and the 18650’s would be running 11.1v for the 3. That is a price disparity of $12 on the first set of batteries… and then never buying batteries for that camera again in it’s lifetime.

This seems like a no-brainer to me…. Why hasn’t this been done?


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[ACCMan]

Go over to the Cuddelink Gen 2 thread and ask the question. There is a Cuddelink rep on there and he may have insight to share.

 

[SwampCat]

As i have dove off the deep end building small external battery packs for my cameras this winter, i got to thinking about something i think the trail camera industry has REALLY missed the boat on.

I know that smaller and smaller has been the go-to for trail cam manufacturers. With the increased quality and availability of 18650’s, the comparatively high battery capacities available, and 500+ charging cycles with only 20% capacity loss…..

Why on earth haven’t the major camera brands offered an 18650 camera advertising reduced overall operating costs? Top of the line 3,500 milliamp hour 18650’s can be found for about $7 a piece. Cameras could easily be made in a 3 battery, or 4 battery configuration depending on what voltage the manufacturer runs the internals on. (Most boards are run somewhere between 9-12 volts)

In comparison to energizer ultimate lithium, which also run 3500mah, but at 1.5v, you could run 3 of the 18650’s ($7/per) versus 6 of the AA ($1.50/per). The AA’s would be running dead on 9V at full charge (it would take 8 non-lithium AA’s for this same voltage) and the 18650’s would be running 11.1v for the 3. That is a price disparity of $12 on the first set of batteries… and then never buying batteries for that camera again in it’s lifetime.

This seems like a no-brainer to me…. Why hasn’t this been done?


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I have wondered that also. All my weapon lights and some of my headlights use those batteries. Just charge them up and go. It is like the archery industry is the only one that had sense enough to standardize fittings on almost all bows so you can use any brand of sight, quiver, stabilizer, bow fishing reel, etc. It doesnt seem like anyone else in the outdoor industry has followed that path - with the exception of modern sporting arms like AR -15’s, AR -10’s, etc.

Those batteries could probably be used in everything from head lights and motion decoys to deer feeders and trail cams.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Interesting thought. One would think they would be a great option to pair with solar too?

 

[Tamarack]

This is still a good question. Unless I've missed the answer somewhere. Solar panels use these as do some battery packs I have.

Perfect:

 

[West_Fork]

I have wondered the same. I really like the 18650, flexible size, plentiful, durable, and great energy density. The only drawback, which I have not experienced personally is the cold weather performance. Another problem I can see over using NiMh is needing a more advanced battery management circuit. I don't think 18650s do well being fully discharged, and some protected cells need to be woken up once they reach that point.

 

[Tamarack]

They make "cold weather" ones..just an example:
https://www.nitecorestore.com/NITECORE-NL1835LTHP-18650-Battery-p/bat-nite-18650-nl1835lthp.htm

I'm still looking around for some good ones for my battery packs.

More reasonably priced, when available:
https://www.orbtronic.com/low-temperature-18650-protected-high-performance-li-ion-battery

 

[ksJoe]

Last year I DIY'd a couple 18650 battery packs to feed to the 12v input on cheap trail cameras. I used pvc pipe with a union in the middle for asembly. It seemed to work well at first, but I fried a couple sets of batteries. Then I quit trying because I didn't want to mess with a BMS circuit to keep the cells happy.

 

[Tamarack]

Mine are from when I ordered some cameras directly from this company in China: http://www.ereagle.com/View.asp?SetFun=PRO&LG=en&TMenu=1&Spec_ID=105
I'm sure there's something like them available on this side of the globe, I never really looked.

 

[Tamarack]

Would something like this work?
https://www.amazon.com/luosh-Batter...18650+battery+pack&qid=1692932997&sr=8-4&th=1

Or these: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256...8ef7a4&afSmartRedirect=y&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

Not sure how weatherproof they'd be if they do work.

 

[Tamarack]

That second one you may have to click on the boxes for the battery packs. The $1.93 is the charger.

 

[West_Fork]

Would something like this work?
https://www.amazon.com/luosh-Battery-Storage-Supply-Router/dp/B08FY57VPC/ref=sr_1_4?hvadid=616990830620&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9018778&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=15341301190324014654&hvtargid=kwd-336398701880&hydadcr=24632_13611814&keywords=12v+18650+battery+pack&qid=1692932997&sr=8-4&th=1

Or these: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256...8ef7a4&afSmartRedirect=y&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

Not sure how weatherproof they'd be if they do work.

That looks to make for an $50-80 battery, and better than most, but at that point why not just get a solar-battery unit?
I get most of my 18650 from www.mtnelectronics.com. High quality, good prices, bad ass flashlight components.

 

[Tamarack]

That looks to make for an $50-80 battery, and better than most, but at that point why not just get a solar-battery unit?
I get most of my 18650 from www.mtnelectronics.com. High quality, good prices, bad ass flashlight components.

Well..I got a # of them for areas not suitable for solar. Some may prefer them if on public land etc instead of panels sticking out.

My Cuddeback sun and shade isn't doing great in a partial sun area so I'm hesitant to stick some of these cameras out for many months hoping they stay powered. I have Herd360's out that i think are also sun and shade but they get quite a bit of sun. Then I've had some cheaper ones like Winghome completely die on me.

Hopefully these boxes keep working... definitely need to get decent batteries.

 

[West_Fork]

Well..I got a # of them for areas not suitable for solar. Some may prefer them if on public land etc instead of panels sticking out.

My Cuddeback sun and shade isn't doing great in a partial sun area so I'm hesitant to stick some of these cameras out for many months hoping they stay powered. I have Herd360's out that i think are also sun and shade but they get quite a bit of sun. Then I've had some cheaper ones like Winghome completely die on me.

Hopefully these boxes keep working... definitely need to get decent batteries.

I am sure you have seen them, but there are 12v lithium iron batteries now that are cheap, 30 Ah for around $60 with bms. I think most are 18650 based. I have a 200Ah in a travel trailer and no complaints.

 

[ksJoe]

I am sure you have seen them, but there are 12v lithium iron batteries now that are cheap, 30 Ah for around $60 with bms. I think most are 18650 based. I have a 200Ah in a travel trailer and no complaints.

I love the LifePo4 batteries! Just be careful about low temps. Don't charge below freezing and don't discharge below -4f.
If you're bringing it home to charge it, that's not a big deal. But if you're charging it with solar, you probably need low temp protection. Many of the LifePo4 batteries that claim to have low temp charging protection don't. Based on Will Prowse teardown videos, Weize and Roypow batteries do.
I've got a Weize 12ah and no complaints so far. I also have a 100ah Li Time without low temp protection.

BTW, these aren't based on 18650s. Its different chemistry than the lithium ion.