Cuddeback external battery and solar run times

[ajtxwi]

the fact that you are using a home brew system and that your battery days went to zero tells me there is some type of issue with your power system, the voltage is fluctuating drastically or it could be something else. It may not be feeding the correct voltage to the camera so id rather not take a guess , as it sounds like its something you put together yourself and it would be nothing but a guess on my part.
EXT ok just means it was running above 6 volts
- BL = battery load in millivolts when he batteries were under load , this can vary up and down, BP is battery percentage and this is not as accurate as BL, your batteries could have been as low as 50% or as high as 90%.

Ha! Definitely "home brew". But you did make me realize one thing... I am using the PW-3617 (with built in power converter) for use with 12V external batteries - the power converter appears to be pushing somewhere between 8 and 9 volts to the camera (based on the EXIF data), so since that is greater than 6V, ext battery is registering ok. But you are right, something is amiss and causing the battery days to restart - I noticed this when the temperatures drop to near zero and figured the SLA battery froze, but I am stumped while temperatures are in the 20's and 30's. As an overkill precaution, I did put a solar panel regulator that might be malfunctioning. The solar panel regulator also is only a two feed system - meaning that it only has leads to the solar panel and the battery. I might try a three feed system with solar panel, battery and load leads (with adjustable volts from 12V down to 9 or so). In any case, this is a great Cuddeback story to tell others about how off the shelf Cuddeback products work much better than home brew systems! I'll buy your super panel when it lands... until then, I need something that will run for 6-months in a shaded forest and will keep experimenting until then.

Oh, and just in case it has been a while since you heard this - I really appreciate your input on this forum from an experienced manufacturer's representative point of view.

 

[ajtxwi]

the fact that you are using a home brew system and that your battery days went to zero tells me there is some type of issue with your power system, the voltage is fluctuating drastically or it could be something else. It may not be feeding the correct voltage to the camera so id rather not take a guess , as it sounds like its something you put together yourself and it would be nothing but a guess on my part.
EXT ok just means it was running above 6 volts
- BL = battery load in millivolts when he batteries were under load , this can vary up and down, BP is battery percentage and this is not as accurate as BL, your batteries could have been as low as 50% or as high as 90%.

not being confrontational - want to learn how to do this well - thinking about a little more, not sure I understand what your definition of a "home brew" system is and how / what I might do differently. The Cuddeback camera is engineered to work with an external 12V battery using the Cudde back PW-3617 cable that should regulate the voltage to the camera (which I am using). I consulted with Cuddeback tech support, and they informed me that any standard 12V deep cycle battery should work and referenced that "most" use a 7.5Ah battery (like for a lawn mower). I pushed them to make a recommendation for the size, but they would not comment, so I went a "little" bigger at 12Ah. To keep the battery topped off, I went with an off the shelf Nature Power solar panel and Nature Power solar regulator (that is designed to push about 13 to 14 volts to the battery) connected directly to the battery. I am trying to work within the confines of Cuddeback recommendations for power regulation using legitimate equipment. Does this sound like a "home brew" system or something that Cuddeback would endorse? Again, just trying to get a great camera to run six months in a wooded environment. If there is a "non-home brew" complete system out there that will run for six months in a shaded environment I would love to buy it. It could also be that either the battery or the solar regulator is not working or maybe there are critters in the battery box!

 

[john volkman]

not being confrontational - want to learn how to do this well - thinking about a little more, not sure I understand what your definition of a "home brew" system is and how / what I might do differently. The Cuddeback camera is engineered to work with an external 12V battery using the Cudde back PW-3617 cable that should regulate the voltage to the camera (which I am using). I consulted with Cuddeback tech support, and they informed me that any standard 12V deep cycle battery should work and referenced that "most" use a 7.5Ah battery (like for a lawn mower). I pushed them to make a recommendation for the size, but they would not comment, so I went a "little" bigger at 12Ah. To keep the battery topped off, I went with an off the shelf Nature Power solar panel and Nature Power solar regulator (that is designed to push about 13 to 14 volts to the battery) connected directly to the battery. I am trying to work within the confines of Cuddeback recommendations for power regulation using legitimate equipment. Does this sound like a "home brew" system or something that Cuddeback would endorse? Again, just trying to get a great camera to run six months in a wooded environment. If there is a "non-home brew" complete system out there that will run for six months in a shaded environment I would love to buy it. It could also be that either the battery or the solar regulator is not working or maybe there are critters in the battery box!

i call anything not using all Cuddeback power accessories a home brew. Im not knocking the desire or ability to use home brews but we see issues often when people configure their own systems so anytime someone adapts there own system im cautious to make any assumptions or guarantees. The Cuddeback 12v adapter cable is designed to run our cameras using a 12volt battery but that doesnt mean it is guaratneed to work with any 12 volt battery or 12 volt solar system for a particular period of time.
If your goal is 6 months in a shaded environment , a 4 D camera with 6 d booster with rayovac high energy batteries often times reaches 180 days and sometimes more. When running my cameras in such a way, I typically plan to change out the external's as soon as my report goes from EXT low, to "OK" meaning the internals are now running the camera. My externals regularly hit 120-150 days meaning if i let the internals run until they died id hit 180-210 days in most cases. That said, in 2022 im switching almost all of my 100+ cameras to either the standard 3600 solar in full sun or the new super solar in tree canopy so i can run them year round without touching them.
The new super solar panel also should exceed 6 months in almost any case other than very dark timber with very little light. The other option is the Dual power bank which has the capacity for 12 d's , this will certainly exceed 180 days and can even be used with a solar panel and rechargeable D's in one bank . Ive seen those run for over a year or more. I cant tell you how long any home brew with our adapter cable will run as there are just to many variables battery, panel site conditions, temp variables etc. .

 

[ajtxwi]

i call anything not using all Cuddeback power accessories a home brew. Im not knocking the desire or ability to use home brews but we see issues often when people configure their own systems so anytime someone adapts there own system im cautious to make any assumptions or guarantees. The Cuddeback 12v adapter cable is designed to run our cameras using a 12volt battery but that doesnt mean it is guaratneed to work with any 12 volt battery or 12 volt solar system for a particular period of time.
If your goal is 6 months in a shaded environment , a 4 D camera with 6 d booster with rayovac high energy batteries often times reaches 180 days and sometimes more. When running my cameras in such a way, I typically plan to change out the external's as soon as my report goes from EXT low, to "OK" meaning the internals are now running the camera. My externals regularly hit 120-150 days meaning if i let the internals run until they died id hit 180-210 days in most cases. That said, in 2022 im switching almost all of my 100+ cameras to either the standard 3600 solar in full sun or the new super solar in tree canopy so i can run them year round without touching them.
The new super solar panel also should exceed 6 months in almost any case other than very dark timber with very little light. The other option is the Dual power bank which has the capacity for 12 d's , this will certainly exceed 180 days and can even be used with a solar panel and rechargeable D's in one bank . Ive seen those run for over a year or more. I cant tell you how long any home brew with our adapter cable will run as there are just to many variables battery, panel site conditions, temp variables etc. .

I appreciate the feedback and the clarification on your definition of home brew. I am new to trail cams and have been unable to find others with the right recipe for my situation - I am often away for six months and trying to set something up that is dependable in the cold. We also have trouble going through so many D cell batteries in a year and was hoping for a larger / rechargeable option.

I am also guessing and troubleshooting and experimenting here - to get one thing clear... not looking for anyone to give me guarantees on run times. I started this experiment because there appears to be no published data.

It sounds like I need to wait for super solar - how do you think it (5 watts vs. 2 watts) might perform in the shaded conditions in the attached photo? Again, not guaranteed... just an opinion. With our current general lighting and number of pictures taken, all of my original cameras stopped at about two months on 4 D's (with no solar yet). This photo is taken in June. Shade probably gets a little heavier through September, then should get a lot more sun during the Winter months when the leaves drop.

 

[Rbear]

Glad I found this forum; new member. I'm looking into buying a 3600 solar panel (or maybe waiting for the "super panel"). I have two G-5055 cameras with Cuddelink (one Home, one Remote).

I've searched, but I can't find an answer to the following questions.

I'd like to power my cameras with the solar panel only -- no internal batteries in the camera. If it's cloudy and the batteries in the panel go dead I understand that there would be no backup power. But I'm OK missing photos during that time. I can wait until there's sun again and the panel batteries recharge.

The questions are: When the panel recharges and begins to supply power again to the camera, how does the camera respond? Does it power up again with all the same settings as before it went dead? Is the Cuddelink communication restored? Does it power up again but use the default settings? Or, does it not power up at all despite having power available?

Finally, are the batteries in the 3600 panel replaceable (it sounds like the "super panel" batteries are replaceable)?

Thanks for any help.

 

[john volkman]

I appreciate the feedback and the clarification on your definition of home brew. I am new to trail cams and have been unable to find others with the right recipe for my situation - I am often away for six months and trying to set something up that is dependable in the cold. We also have trouble going through so many D cell batteries in a year and was hoping for a larger / rechargeable option.

I am also guessing and troubleshooting and experimenting here - to get one thing clear... not looking for anyone to give me guarantees on run times. I started this experiment because there appears to be no published data.

It sounds like I need to wait for super solar - how do you think it (5 watts vs. 2 watts) might perform in the shaded conditions in the attached photo? Again, not guaranteed... just an opinion. With our current general lighting and number of pictures taken, all of my original cameras stopped at about two months on 4 D's (with no solar yet). This photo is taken in June. Shade probably gets a little heavier through September, then should get a lot more sun during the Winter months when the leaves drop.

Keep in mind there are a lot of variables dictating battery life and that is why you dont see exact time periods published. I have many times given averages including in my responses to you but i wont give you a guarantee , its just to difficult to define it without knowing every variable (and even then they can change ).
The 3600 2 watt solar with 5 hours of sun on it will run a year or more in many cases.Even thru the cold winter of WI.
In recent testing, the new super solar has went over a year in canopy similar to your picture but keep in mind variables can change that. average temp, pic count, cell rate, camera delay etc can all have an effect. They should be here by June and at that time many more will hit the field and we will have real world results in tree canopy by fall.
60 days on 4 d's without solar or a booster is about max you should expect. 6 d booster its common to hit 180 days , sometimes more but sometimes less.

 

[john volkman]

Glad I found this forum; new member. I'm looking into buying a 3600 solar panel (or maybe waiting for the "super panel"). I have two G-5055 cameras with Cuddelink (one Home, one Remote).

I've searched, but I can't find an answer to the following questions.

I'd like to power my cameras with the solar panel only -- no internal batteries in the camera. If it's cloudy and the batteries in the panel go dead I understand that there would be no backup power. But I'm OK missing photos during that time. I can wait until there's sun again and the panel batteries recharge.

The questions are: When the panel recharges and begins to supply power again to the camera, how does the camera respond? Does it power up again with all the same settings as before it went dead? Is the Cuddelink communication restored? Does it power up again but use the default settings? Or, does it not power up at all despite having power available?

Finally, are the batteries in the 3600 panel replaceable (it sounds like the "super panel" batteries are replaceable)?

Thanks for any help.

You need the batteries in the camera as back up , if you dont and the panel goes dead the camera will turn off and you would need to visit it to arm it again even if the panel charges itself back up. The system is designed to have the 4 d in the camera as back up power.
The settings dont change when the batteries die but it cant rearm itself once it goes dead. Rayovac D's are about $1 each , cheap insurance that your cameras keep running. I guarantee that you will wish you spent the $4 if your camera goes dead. Batteries are repalceable in the 3600 and the new super solar panel.

 

[Rbear]

You need the batteries in the camera as back up , if you dont and the panel goes dead the camera will turn off and you would need to visit it to arm it again even if the panel charges itself back up. The system is designed to have the 4 d in the camera as back up power.
The settings dont change when the batteries die but it cant rearm itself once it goes dead. Rayovac D's are about $1 each , cheap insurance that your cameras keep running. I guarantee that you will wish you spent the $4 if your camera goes dead. Batteries are repalceable in the 3600 and the new super solar panel.

@john volkman Got it. Thanks for the lightning fast response. I'll get some D's. My place has a lot of sun however, so I may do an experiment and see how long I can go without batteries.

 

[JonJ]

Been busy, missed out on a bunch. Note on the EXIF data, it would only know voltage applied to camera. With SLA going through converter in adapter cable, it would not d8rectly indicate SLA voltage. Just plugged cable on bad SLA only reading 8v and output at camera end was 6.06v. have noticed output with full SLA always around 8.85v. if someone had a variable DC pwr source, might be able to graph input/output to be able to tell what EXIF level would indicate that SLA has dropped below @11.8v and degrading battery.
I'm also leaning towards saying the 7.5ah SLAs are POS. I bought 2 new ones in Nov. Can't get much more than 30 days on J's without solar. I've had higher than normal nights in teens (NC), but nothing like you guys. I think lawn mower batteries provide more bang for $.
I put my G-0 home/cell on old car battery and 7 watt panel with unrestricted sun, we'll see how that works.
If you have a spot with good sun (4-5 hours), the old 3501 solar panels with 12AA pack is super. My busiest J keeps on ticking, 107 days with lots of cloudy days, no issues. This is with 2 yrs old Bonai 1100mah AAs that came with panels. I got 7 of the 3501s with a used system and will utilize every place I can.
Reading more and more that the claimed mah ratings for rechargeables are bull, so buyer be ware.
I bought a varmint light with 2 1100 mah batteries 3yrs back. Found a flashlight with USB charger and 9900 mah batteries cheap. I used the varmint light nightly checking backyard. I get 3-4 more time out of lower rated batteries. Zero truth in advertising with foreign labeled products.

 

[Rbear]

Just rec'd my Cuddeback PW-3600 solar panel. Will head out to property soon to install & test.

Question: On the box it says, "Additional 7.2 NiMH battery can be added if needed (sold separately)." Is this referring to the Cuddeback Dual Power Bank or something else?

 

[john volkman]

Just rec'd my Cuddeback PW-3600 solar panel. Will head out to property soon to install & test.

Question: On the box it says, "Additional 7.2 NiMH battery can be added if needed (sold separately)." Is this referring to the Cuddeback Dual Power Bank or something else?

the 3600 panel has in internal battery in the back, there is room to add another for more power storage. In many cases, its not needed but that option is there.

 

[Rbear]

the 3600 panel has in internal battery in the back, there is room to add another for more power storage. In many cases, its not needed but that option is there.

Thanks again John. I removed the back cover to have a look (photo attached for others wanting to know). I don't see this battery offered on Cuddeback's website, so I presume Amazon has them, correct? Is that a SM-2P plug on the battery?

As you say, "In many cases it's not needed." But as I mentioned, I have plenty of sun and so will experiment powering the camera by the 3600 alone without internal camera batteries. In this case the second battery in the panel would increase the chance of success.

 

[john volkman]

Thanks again John. I removed the back cover to have a look (photo attached for others wanting to know). I don't see this battery offered on Cuddeback's website, so I presume Amazon has them, correct? Is that a SM-2P plug on the battery?

As you say, "In many cases it's not needed." But as I mentioned, I have plenty of sun and so will experiment powering the camera by the 3600 alone without internal camera batteries. In this case the second battery in the panel would increase the chance of success.
View attachment 41882

farmstead outdoors had some last time i was there - keep in mind if anything chews thru your cable the camera would lose power without batteries in it as well, you may want to invest in the metal wrapped cables and make sure nothing can pull it out when you set it up. Its rare but i have had both of those things happen to me.

 

[Rbear]

Ha! Good point. I had an elk chew on the sheath over the camera antenna and pull it off -- got photos of him approaching the camera! I found it on the ground and was fortunately able to re-attach it. If the no-battery experiment doesn't work out, I'll just get the D batteries. No biggie.

 

[jhoeh]

Been busy, missed out on a bunch. Note on the EXIF data, it would only know voltage applied to camera. With SLA going through converter in adapter cable, it would not d8rectly indicate SLA voltage. Just plugged cable on bad SLA only reading 8v and output at camera end was 6.06v. have noticed output with full SLA always around 8.85v. if someone had a variable DC pwr source, might be able to graph input/output to be able to tell what EXIF level would indicate that SLA has dropped below @11.8v and degrading battery.

I've tested multiple cables with a variable DC power supply and found that they always output 8.95v; that is until the incoming voltage falls below 8.95v, then the output matches the input. This means that the voltage shown in the exif data can not be used to indicate the state of your 12v battery. The best bet for avoiding over-discharge of your battery is either a low voltage cutoff or a solar controller that includes a low voltage cutoff. I have decided to go the solar controller route as the cost is basically the same (~$10) and I can then add solar where appropriate to fully utilize the controller.

I will be testing a couple 3600 solar panels with 2 battery packs to see how they last in my areas, but there are very few areas where I get full sun. I have high hopes, but already have 20+ 12v setups that are my primary focus. Using the solar controllers, I can add larger solar panels to help make up for the lack of sun. Not ideal, as I prefer a less conspicuous setup, but when everything is 800 miles away reliability is pretty important.

 

[JonJ]

I got some adds on Facebook for 12v wind turbines. They were all 100 watt+. Did some web searches and couldn't find anything in 10-20 watt range. Specs show relatively low minimum wind speeds needed. Not that many applications would be suited, but something like a home cell at a barn/building might provide external battery maintenance. Relatively cheap.

 

[JonJ]

Update, AA and 3501 still ticking at 180 days. Home cell at 130 days on old car battery and 7 watt solar panel.

 

[ajtxwi]

Keep in mind there are a lot of variables dictating battery life and that is why you dont see exact time periods published. I have many times given averages including in my responses to you but i wont give you a guarantee , its just to difficult to define it without knowing every variable (and even then they can change ).
The 3600 2 watt solar with 5 hours of sun on it will run a year or more in many cases.Even thru the cold winter of WI.
In recent testing, the new super solar has went over a year in canopy similar to your picture but keep in mind variables can change that. average temp, pic count, cell rate, camera delay etc can all have an effect. They should be here by June and at that time many more will hit the field and we will have real world results in tree canopy by fall.
60 days on 4 d's without solar or a booster is about max you should expect. 6 d booster its common to hit 180 days , sometimes more but sometimes less.

HOME BREW TEST #1 RESULTS: OK, well... my first 12Ah battery tied to 20 watt solar panel ran well for four months now (and counting). Only complication is that it went dead for four days in late February then came back on and has been running since - I am guessing that the solar panel had snow on it or got really freekin' cold and the SLA battery stopped before warming up again.

HOME BREW TEST #2 START: Given shaded conditions and successful results of the first test, I have now installed a 2nd camera with 20Ah battery (probably a little more battery than needed) tied to 20 watt solar panel. We'll see if this one performs as well as the first test. Trail cam location also appears to get a little bit of sun light through the tree canopy - which helps.

If super solar hits the market and proves worthy in shaded conditions, I might deploy one to see how it works. Wood framed solar panel / battery box holder is a little clunky too - will continue to refine and explore.

 

[ajtxwi]

Update, AA and 3501 still ticking at 180 days. Home cell at 130 days on old car battery and 7 watt solar panel.

awesome - what are the shade conditions like for the 7 watt panel camera tied to car battery?

 

[JonJ]

awesome - what are the shade conditions like for the 7 watt panel camera tied to car battery?

Car battery and 7watt are in perfect sun on top my 16 ft tower stand on ridge top. Currently at 143 days.
12AA and 3501 now at 213 days.
Just picked up a 3.5watt 6volt 10ft cable panel ($22). Going to try a 6v setup. Cameras are designed to function on 6v, so maybe that's enough.