When plotting draws too many deer ?

[Fall guy]

I have had Bachelor group some nice bucks using property for some years now. I had usually couple groups of 1.5 to 3.5 and a nice 4.5 year old who has spent summer here past 3 years sometimes first to field and always last to leave at dark. They usually hang here until early October and some show back up in late November. In past just ran nice pasture mix of primarily clovers chicory with little canola and turnips sprinkled in 2 (1/2 acre plots) and 2 (1/2 acre) stands of corn mainly used for screening and late season. Deer would spend last hour or so of daylight here before moving out to main ag fields. This year neighboring farmers planting beans so I thought I will give beans a go for first time. Turns out my surrounding cover and beans drew every deer in area here come mid July. I could see larger bucks driving does and others off as season progressed looked like constant conflict versus past years with less deer. They moved out first week of August with only a few pics middle of night now. I have since spotted them in large bean field just down the road at last light and after dark.

Now my regulars are a field full of does and young bucks. Its looking like I should have left well enough alone. Maybe I am wrong but I believe the pressure of to many deer on a small parcel pushed my older deer to move on. Any thoughts.




Last Day time pic of one of the older deer.

 

[wiscwhip]

If possible, in the future, always plant what your farmer doesn't have, not the same crop as everyone else in the neighborhood. Provide something they cannot readily get elsewhere, not the same stuff they can get in the buffet line next door. The beans are a huge draw to start with, so some of those deer would have possibly left anyway, but if your plot is more secluded, the doe groups will hammer your hidden area like crazy to keep the fawns out of plain sight, possibly contributing to the bucks moving on.

 

[mikmaze]

can you mow strips into the beans and plant purple top turnips in the strips, with a plan at certain yardages.........

 

[Fall guy]

Just planted yesterday between rains broadcast over beans and run tractor down rows to pack in (radishes & ptt). They got rows mowed down good enough, light will get to nicely. With regard to beans I needed to get away from corn figured feed em good in summer not hoping for beans to make fall. Did not know would be that big a draw for others.

Whip you are correct I do have 5 fawns 2 sets twins and one single. Not the norm here. Lived here 15 years this is first with this many.

I also run this same set up In Trempealeau county works fine but deer have better cover and selection there versus here.

 

[MoLandOwner]

Cool, Nice Job FG!

 

[dipper]

We have the same topic on another thread. I agree 100%, too many deer impact big buck movement. He'll b around though

 

[BJE80]

What thread is this discussed on?





I believe I might have this problem. The old hag does I have around keep the bucks away until it is time to screw. Otherwise they don't want to deal with them and their kids.

 

[Fall guy]

I hope he does return. Should call him a Golden Guernsey (Cattle version) have watched him multiple times past 2 years. I have area I can see from with no risk of spooking been very interesting watching how different older bucks react to other deer. They like their own space.

 

[chummer]

That plot looks awesome. I feel I have the same problem with very few deer. I have always had a couple old does around that drive everything else away. They are nasty bitches. This year I only have one left. They have never had a fawn with them so they offer no value to regrow the herd. I think the bucks would rather just not deal with it. Maybe they don't want to get on her bad side so they have a chance to score in November.

 

[BuckSutherland]

I guess from my limited knowledge I want a property full of does come hunting season. That way if I am a big buck I dont have to run my ass of trying to breed a doe or two, and can just walk over to the next one if the first one is unwilling.

 

[wildfire]

When our renter plants beans, so do I. When he harvests his beans, I have the only ones left.o_O

 

[tooln]

Nice pics. I wish I had the problem of to many deer.

 

[SD51555]

Does with fawns are hateful women during the growing season. They don't take kindly to those outside their social circle in their rearing territory. I'd guess that's a risk with even one doe. I've never thought bucks grouped up in the summer because they liked each other. I always thought it was because they were the outcasts on the edge of Ma's turf.

 

[dipper]

Last night we got an ice cream cone a did a little scouting. I'm starting to get the itch to turn it up alittle....
It was nice to see these two 3 year old 130"ers around at 6pm. I think it was the first time I ate ice cream from the truck and watched 2 pretty bucks. The wife was all pumped up, which is funny. I would have got hacked if we saw the 180"plus that's been around, but that didn't happen.

We ended up seeing around 30 deer on 3 fields. There was only a mom and fawn on this field with the bucks. We only saw one more yearling buck, and he was with momma and a group of 15 does. She is gonna push him up once he shed velvet.
I've noticed older bucks having a lot more tolerance to piles of other deer, but that generally happens in large ag fields. In my opinion, does don't push older bucks out this time of year, the older bucks, just tend to avoid the does. By older bucks I mean 3 plus, I've seen two year olds hang close to piles of does.

 

[WTNUT]

I do not know if anyone identified the similar thread, but would like to see it. In the meantime, I have been engaged in significant management and food plotting since 2002. Before that I just played around. I do not know all the reasons for what you are seeing, but there is no doubt in my mind that one can draw too many deer to an area whether it is a 40 acre farm or 2,500. I lose tract, but I think we now own and manage about 3,600 acres. We have experienced similar problems from time to time as you are describing. Here are some of my thoughts based upon priority of importance as considered by someone who has no formal education in wildlife management:

1. Too many deer creates too much stress on the herd. Even when there is more food than they can eat (we have that every year), the increased stress during the summer, during the rut to get all does bred seems to take it's toll. I also firmly believe for a variety of reason that too much stress harms antler development.

2. Too many deer combined with high grading (only shooting the bucks that score the most), can lead to a lot of very mature, very dominant, very aggressive bucks. We have had 7 year old 140 inch bucks that ran off 180 inch deer like fawns.

3. For some unknown reason, we have always seemed to be able to hold and keep a lot of our young bucks through age 4. Early in our management days, it was very common for us to have 5.5 year old bucks literally disappear only to reappear when 6.5. We have had bucks with very unique antler configuration do this so there was no doubt it was the same buck returning as a 6.5 year old. I really don't know why they would move as 5.5 year olds, but promise you they did. The last couple years we have had too many deer and too much pressure for those deer (pressure from the deer not hunters). We have not seen those 5.5 year olds come back as 6.5 year olds. Maybe we just had no photos and no sitings. Maybe they were shot. I can't be certain, but I really think the pressure was significant enough and the bucks were old enough that they really did not want to deal with it.

Those are my top three thougths.

 

[sandbur]

Just planted yesterday between rains broadcast over beans and run tractor down rows to pack in (radishes & ptt). They got rows mowed down good enough, light will get to nicely. With regard to beans I needed to get away from corn figured feed em good in summer not hoping for beans to make fall. Did not know would be that big a draw for others.

Whip you are correct I do have 5 fawns 2 sets twins and one single. Not the norm here. Lived here 15 years this is first with this many.

I also run this same set up In Trempealeau county works fine but deer have better cover and selection there versus here.

If you have does, feed, and cover, the bucks will return about the 20th of October or a bit later..

Five fawns is not too many deer if you have any number of acres. How many deer die from your property each year, human and other predators?
Each situation is different and you are the best judge. I once had an old doe that had 8 fawns in 3 years. She would drive other does and yearling bucks away during the whole summer. The last few years, I wish we had her back. Each situation is different, but it is very evident that you can shoot too many does in an area.

 

[Satchmo]

When plotting draws too many deer???

I honestly have no idea what your talking about! ;)

 

[dipper]

We were chatting about it briefly in Jordan's destination plot thread.
Wtnt 3600 acres? What state? Got a website?
I'd love to have a high grading problem. Very interesting in the 5.5-6.5 buck situation.

 

[Fall guy]

Quote:What other observations have you been noticing?

He "usually" enters by self or on occasions with a 3.5 year old. Cold fronts they all seem to have watch and show up at same time in a group but he will be last in.

Never puts himself in danger always wind to back and plenty room out in front for visual. Gun he would be dead easy. Bow (I like the challenge) a whole different game In other words to get crack at him I will have to really push the edge. I have plenty pressure around my property you do not use grunt call here unless you want to clear field. I just make a point of staying out of where they spend there days.

Likes his space he will go to to another deer but gives strong behavior body postures to others if approached. Once hard horned real close to September 1st things begin to change slowly few wrestling matches but for most part they are together, and by October 7th. It is break up and they begin vanishing. Rut not reel good here way to much pressure from adjacent properties. It is primarily a hour after dark and before sunrise thing. I have way better places to hunt then. This is real good early and late season for some consistent deer movement. Very easy to pattern Sept opener until first week October and again first week Dec Until close. My favorite times for this location.


I am not a big fan of scents and this is not a promo. But last year I wanted to see how deer react to Tinks new sweet weed. We just had good cold front and I was going to video late August so I squirted a several ounces in weeds on edge of clover which would be blowing area deer should come from. About Hour before sunset like clock work they all showed 5 bucks to include older one. They all raised noses from edge of field ( about 100 yards out) and 3 ran to where sprayed I could not believe there reaction. But quess what the Golden Guernsey and another mature deer hit the brakes 50 yards out and let the younger guys do all the inspecting. They moved in but well after others had left. It just shows more mature deer are not going to charge into something new or out of place.

 

[bat man]

I used to hunt a spot down in Mankato where there would be 30 to 70 deer in the field every night. If the big boy showed he was the last guy in. What was strange is if anything cleared the field, the oldest bucks would act like nothing was wrong when all the other deer were flagging and running. Then they would slowly walk off. Last guy to leave the field.