What's your organic matter?

[wiscwhip]

Here is link UW Extension with more info then you may need. Page 15 will get you to Organic Info.

http://www.soils.wisc.edu/extension/pubs/A3588.pdf

That is a great document Fall Guy, I actually have had it saved to my computer for a couple years now.

 

[Fall guy]

yes UW extension has great information

I am interested in hearing what you Dipper and others have done to improve. I have
Couple areas that are just plain sandy .2 organic matter . Gave up on outside of grasses. If we get low rainfall are worthless in 3 weeks.

 

[dipper]

My OG is 2.8 % average in my 4 plots. Here's a question for you guys. I cleared a new plot in the woods this winter. Mostly small aspen. I didn't want to disturb the topsoil so I had the whole thing mulched leaving a layer of wood chips that I plan to incorporate into the soil to add OG. From what I've read the breakdown of the wood chips in the soil will deplete the soil of nitrogen so I have to plant a nitrogen producing crop or supplement with urea. Any thoughts. Am I missing something here?

Yes it will temporarily tie up some nitrogen as it breaks down but it is worth imo. I'd go with rye and red clover off the bat. You could even spring plant it. I've been suggested many times.

I tested 5 different spots last year it was between 10-12% in every spot. I am not sure what that really gets me. My ph was 5.2-6.2 in those spots, and all got limed last year. What does this fabulous OM and improving ph get me? I know very little about soil. Do to rocks and roots nothing gets tilled except one spot and that is very shallow. My planting method is spray, seed, and roll. Can I start skipping fertilizer.

moisture and nutrient retention are 2 simple ones. You gotta understand the synthetic fertilizer you buy isn't organic. A plants roots can't just grow around a piece of pot ash and capture the potassium. That pot ash needs to break down and chemically become organic, so a plant can use it. It is a very inefficient process, so your plants are only getting a fraction of the expensive synthetic fertilizer you are buying.
Organic matter is criticial in holding and making organic nutrients available to a plant, reducing the need for the expensive organic fertilizer.
It all comes back to $ my friend, and how much you are literally throwing away.

 

[PRK]

Yes it will temporarily tie up some nitrogen as it breaks down but it is worth imo. I'd go with rye and red clover off the bat. You could even spring plant it. I've been suggested many times.

moisture and nutrient retention are 2 simple ones. You gotta understand the synthetic fertilizer you buy isn't organic. A plants roots can't just grow around a piece of pot ash and capture the potassium. That pot ash needs to break down and chemically become organic, so a plant can use it. It is a very inefficient process, so your plants are only getting a fraction of the expensive synthetic fertilizer you are buying.
Organic matter is criticial in holding and making organic nutrients available to a plant, reducing the need for the expensive organic fertilizer.
It all comes back to $ my friend, and how much you are literally throwing away.

Thanks Dipper. I had a local "Expert" up in these neck of the woods tell me after the mulching was done that all the decomposing material would lower the soil pH to such an acidic range I would never get anything to grow. I could not find any literature supporting that claim. Spring planted rye and red clover it is.

 

[dipper]

mow the rye later in the summer if u think it's too mature. It will pop right back, and u are adding om at an efficient rate. I personally wouldnt mow but I'm a guy who hasn't seen rye too mature for deer to eat

 

[phil@thesidehill]

here are the vital stats on my soil from the web soil survey.

the first soil test i ever did on this area which was 2009 or 2010 i had ogranic matter included. I cant find that anywhere. I am going to be getting a soil sample done soon so i can update once that is complete.

WbC—Wellsboro channery silt loam, 8 to 15 percent slopes
Map Unit Setting

• National map unit symbol: 2vck6
• Elevation: 330 to 2,460 feet
• Mean annual precipitation: 31 to 70 inches
• Mean annual air temperature: 39 to 52 degrees F
• Frost-free period: 105 to 180 days
• Farmland classification: Farmland of statewide importance

Map Unit Composition

• Wellsboro and similar soils: 90 percent
• Minor components: 10 percent

• Estimates are based on observations, descriptions, and transects of the mapunit.

Description of Wellsboro
Setting

• Landform: Till plains
• Landform position (two-dimensional): Backslope, shoulder
• Landform position (three-dimensional): Interfluve, side slope
• Down-slope shape: Linear
• Across-slope shape: Linear
• Parent material: Loamy till from reddish sandstone, siltstone, and shale

Typical profile

• Ap - 0 to 8 inches: channery silt loam
• Bw - 8 to 22 inches: channery silt loam
• Bx - 22 to 55 inches: channery loam
• C - 55 to 72 inches: very channery loam

Properties and qualities

• Slope: 8 to 15 percent
• Percent of area covered with surface fragments: 0.0 percent
• Depth to restrictive feature: 14 to 30 inches to fragipan
• Natural drainage class: Moderately well drained
• Capacity of the most limiting layer to transmit water (Ksat): Very low to moderately low (0.00 to 0.14 in/hr)
• Depth to water table: About 13 to 24 inches
• Frequency of flooding: None
• Frequency of ponding: None
• Available water storage in profile: Low (about 3.8 inches)

Interpretive groups

• Land capability classification (irrigated): None specified
• Land capability classification (nonirrigated): 3e
• Hydrologic Soil Group: D

Minor Components
Morris

• Percent of map unit: 5 percent
• Landform: Till plains
• Landform position (two-dimensional): Toeslope
• Landform position (three-dimensional): Base slope
• Down-slope shape: Concave
• Across-slope shape: Concave

Lackawanna

• Percent of map unit: 5 percent
• Landform: Hillslopes, ridges
• Landform position (two-dimensional): Backslope, summit
• Landform position (three-dimensional): Mountaintop, side slope
• Down-slope shape: Linear
• Across-slope shape: Linear

GEOGRAPHIC SETTING: Wellsboro soils are on nearly level to steep glaciated uplands. Slope ranges from 0 to 50 percent. The soils developed in firm till derived from reddish sandstone, siltstone, and shale. Mean annual temperature ranges from 6 to 11 degrees C (43 to 52 degrees F). Mean annual precipitation ranges from 795 to 1725 mm (31 to 68 in), and mean annual frost-free season ranges from 105 to 180 days. These soils generally occur at elevations between 100 and 670 m (328 and 2,198 ft), but have been mapped as high as 750 m (2,460 ft) in some areas.

 

[tooln]

I finally got around to looking up mine. The only soil test I had that gave me the organic matter was from 2011 and it was 3.5. I may have to use a different lab or test this year.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Phil - DeKalb channery loam and DeKalb channery sandy loam over here at camp in Lyco. No OM report either. Old farmstead on mountaintop. We're using buckwheat, rye, & brassica worked in to add OM.

 

[Steve Oehlenschlager]

All my plots average about 2%. However I have one plot that is where they fed cows for 30 years (but not in 30 years!) and that is close to 5%. However I have a tough time growing virtually any thing there because the top soil is so light and fluffy that it dries out virtually overnight. And boy does it still contain weed seeds even though it contained just canary grasss for the last 30 years. Those seeds are still there from the hay all this years ago.

 

[phil@thesidehill]

All my plots average about 2%. However I have one plot that is where they fed cows for 30 years (but not in 30 years!) and that is close to 5%. However I have a tough time growing virtually any thing there because the top soil is so light and fluffy that it dries out virtually overnight. And boy does it still contain weed seeds even though it contained just canary grasss for the last 30 years. Those seeds are still there from the hay all this years ago.

Sounds like a good spot for a no till approach.

 

[dipper]

Sounds like a good spot for a no till approach.

A sandy loam high in om is a very good soil. There is limitations with every soil, u just have to know your lowest hole in the bucket. Very good hole plugging advice Steve. Organic material on the service holds a lot of moisture.

 

[BJE80]

I think Dipper explained it best above when he said: "In simple terms, om reduces some of the need for expensive fertilizer. Om is really, really good at holding water. You can think of it as kind of a sponge for water and nutrients."

I guess I am going to try and make my OM as low as possible. :p

 

[Satchmo]

Wouldn't it be great if there if there a cactus the deer liked that was tolerant to zone 3.:D