What would you do? Baiting - or seizing an opportunity???

[j-bird]

More than likely I will take the time and clean it up - not sure where I will dump it, may just save it like SD suggests until after hunting season. Guess I'll spend some time on the business end of a scoop shovel this weekend. Risking any review via our "peers" doesn't sound worth it to me. Not that I think I would loose, but public opinion will only remember the charge. People tend to assume your gulity regardless of the official resolution. I also have to consider the time and money spent fighting it. "Peers" like you guys is one thing "peers" picked by our wonderful legal system - I'll pass!

I will say one thing, that combine head is a VERY efficient piece of hardware! I remember the "old" days when a harvsted field would still provide corn for the deer and it wasn't much of a struggle to find it. Those days are long gone on my place - deer would find more to eat in a wal-mart parking lot than in one of my harvested fields anymore. Its great for the farmer but makes my plots all that more important.

 

[foggy]

I'm not sure if its legal. But....it is unethical to hunt there.....IMO.

I know a few guys that put down some "deer cane". It attracts deer....no doubt. I'd have a hard time telling a story of my big buck....that was shot off a "cane" site. Just saying. :)

 

[kskid]

What do I do if I round the corner of the field and Mr. Big is standing there at this pile? Am I breaking the law? My opinion - I am not (based on the fact that I did not place it there, or arrange to have it placed there with the intent of hunting over it). But my opinion may not matter!

I know I'm in a different state, but just for the sake of additional perspective I'll throw in two more cents worth of comment. In KS baiting deer is legal, but baiting waterfowl is not. I'm only commenting because I would assume that baiting "logic" is the same regardless of the animal.

In KS it is up to the hunter to assess the area to be hunted beforehand. It doesn't matter who put it there, when they put it there, or why it's there. If it's there, you should know it and you can't hunt around it (I don't know how they determine the size of the affected area). We all know it happens, but spilling grain (even accidentally) isn't considered a normal agricultural practice. Around here, there's no question you'd be cited for it. Whether or not you'd be found guilty is another matter.... Incidentally, I understand the state's position, but I don't particularly agree with it. ;)

 

[sandbur]

I'm not sure if its legal. But....it is unethical to hunt there.....IMO.

I know a few guys that put down some "deer cane". It attracts deer....no doubt. I'd have a hard time telling a story of my big buck....that was shot off a "cane" site. Just saying. :)

I like that way of thinking.

 

[West Branch]

I still say it's a bad idea.

http://hunt-indiana.com/thread/50739/another-deer-baiting-question

I would not hunt it either.

But if that is an actual CO posting he has no idea what he is talking about:

Under "Normal agricultural practices" a farmer would have tried to clean up the pile of corn.

Why would a farmer waste time scooping up <$20 worth of corn at <$3.50 a bushel? If I did my math right a 12 row corn head would take in 4 acres of corn in 15 minutes at 4 mph (someone please check this). 15 minutes for ~$2,100 worth of corn if they get 150 bushels/acre. Yup, a farmer is going to mess around scooping up 300 lbs of corn and dirt when he could be sitting in his combine getting some actual work done.

 

[JackTerp]

I, personally, would not hunt over it. I have, however, talked with a lot of people about food plotting being a legal way of baiting. I see no difference in hunting over a planted plot and hunting over a pile of corn. I know everyone is going to jump up and down about it, but that is my opinion. I do plot and I do hunt over them so I guess I'm a hypocrite. :)

 

[kabic]

I, personally, would not hunt over it. I have, however, talked with a lot of people about food plotting being a legal way of baiting. I see no difference in hunting over a planted plot and hunting over a pile of corn. I know everyone is going to jump up and down about it, but that is my opinion. I do plot and I do hunt over them so I guess I'm a hypocrite. :)

I agree food plots are just bait spread out over a wider area...and they take more work than dumping a pile of corn.

 

[j-bird]

The posts here have really highlighted the different thoughs that ran thru my head and thus the reason I posted the thread.

I will avoid the situation by cleaning it up as best I can - at least I can provide evidence of trying to do the right thing (intent to do the right thing is better than doing nothing). If Mr. Mossy Horns shows up in that area - then I will make that decision at that time. I don't handle guilt well - never have, more than likely any deer in that general area will get a pass, just because the slightest bit of guilt will eat me alive on the inside and that is no way to live.

Ethics are a funny thing - they are different for everyone, and I have to live with my decision.

 

[bueller]

The posts here have really highlighted the different thoughs that ran thru my head and thus the reason I posted the thread.

I will avoid the situation by cleaning it up as best I can - at least I can provide evidence of trying to do the right thing (intent to do the right thing is better than doing nothing). If Mr. Mossy Horns shows up in that area - then I will make that decision at that time. I don't handle guilt well - never have, more than likely any deer in that general area will get a pass, just because the slightest bit of guilt will eat me alive on the inside and that is no way to live.

Ethics are a funny thing - they are different for everyone, and I have to live with my decision.

j-bird, I personally wouldn't clean it up. You previously said that the pile is not huntable from your stands, that you would have to put a ground blind up to hunt it. Forget the ground blind and stick to your original plan of hunting the stands you already have in place. You didn't put the corn there and shouldn't have to clean it up, that's IF you are NOT hunting over it. IMO manipulating the corn by trying to clean it up puts you at more risk than simply leaving it alone.

 

[JackTerp]

I'll give a little story based on a friends encounters. Jeff leased two small pieces of adjoining property, total about 80 acres, for quite a few years. He had permission to install several platform stands. One was pretty much on the boundary of the two parcels. The owner of the smaller parcel sold it and the new owner is a real douchebag. He had a fit about the one platform and even threatened Jeff and his young son on one occasion. Jeff had decided to move the stand a little so it wasn't sitting right on the border, but not till the season was over. On the first saturday of the season, jeff was sitting in the raised stand when a CO appeared out of nowhere. He asked Jeff to come down. He then started writing up a citation for hunting over bait. Jeff swore he had no bait and the CO took him about 100 yards away and showed him a pile of corn that was laying behind a log. The pile was on the neighbors property. The CO told him it made no difference where the pile was, he was hunting within 200 yards of it and was therefore responsible. In court, Jeff asked the CO how he found the pile, he stated he had gotten a tip about people hunting over bait in that stand.

Jeff ended up not paying a fine, but lost a days hunting and another days pay to go to court. So, remember, check the area within 200 yards of your stand every time you hunt it. Even before you get into your stand before daylight.

By the way, the owner of the adjoining property was busted for distributing meth about 6 months later. He had to sell the property to pay for legal fees and Jeff bought it. Karma is a wonderful thing sometimes.

 

[Honker]

I would call my CO and ask him/her what they think about the situation and find out if it is legal or not. They're the one who is going to cite me if they think I am in violation. I'd rather know either way.

 

[JackTerp]

I would call my CO and ask him/her what they think about the situation and find out if it is legal or not. They're the one who is going to cite me if they think I am in violation. I'd rather know either way.

We are on very good ground with our local CO. He and I have had this conversation on several occasions over the years. He has been very evasive about giving a definitive answer. I have come to the conclusion that this is one of those areas where the law enforcement people use the wording of the law to gain serious powers. It is a lot like the federal racketeering laws. They are worded so that the officers have a lot of latitude to allow them to investigate and prosecute people that are known trouble makers. They will never give you a straight black and white answer. j-bird has said he will clean it up. The problem comes in when you do clean it up, you admit that you thought it was a bait or you would not have cleaned it up. Now, what is a bait pile? Is one grain of corn left there a bait pile? Does it take two grains of bait to be considered a bait pile. From CO's point of view one grain can be considered a bait pile. It is a very difficult area and basically comes down to the relationship you have with the local CO's. New CO's and, in some states, their deputies are much harder to deal with as they always seem gungho to make arrests and issue tickets. At least that has been my experience.

We run into that every year with a friend who plants a lot of millet for dove shoots. As long as he lets the millet stand and doesn't touch it, it is considered a crop. As soon as he knocks one head off onto the ground, it's bait. the local CO hates my buddy and watches him like a hawk. He will red flag the field in a heartbeat and then you cannot hunt it for ten days.

 

[j-bird]

Since doing nothing isn't my thing - I called my CO.

No name or address given - essentially the jist is it isn't bait (they sited "normal agricultural practices" specifically) and I am free to hunt over it if I choose without issue. They did suggest not broadcasting that information should I harvest a deer that way (legal yes, but maybe not well received). They also said they would prefer me to leave it alone (hunting it or not) as it reduces my direct involvement with it and thus any "perception" should anyone ask or pressthe issue. Cleaning it up or moving it simply complicates things. They did ask if it was within sight of a road (which it isn't) to see if it would be a poaching issue. He reminded me to be safe and wished me good luck!

So now it falls on my ethical shoulders - should there be a deer standing there. Like I said I don't do well with guilt so I hope I don't have to pass the deer of a lifetime, but I will. I won't like it, but I will be able to look at myself in the mirror.

Legality issue = resolved!
Ethical issue = optomistic I will do the right thing for me!

 

[sandbur]

I do not remember if you said this is your land or not.

but to change the discussion a bit, would cleaning up the corn be recognized as theft? It should belong to the farmer.

 

[j-bird]

Yep - my land.

Not sure how that works.

If I was to clean it up and use it in another way or dispose of it - the farmer in my case would no see it as theft. He would see it as one less potential issue he has to screw with come spring. Farmers (at least in my area) are a very cost/reward minded type of folks. In this case the costs in time alone would not warrant the return. He has more crops to get out and has much bigger issues to contend with at the moment. The true legality of it: I don't know. The practicality of it in my case: no victim = no crime. I would equate it to picking up pop cans out of the ditch along the road - technically it's stealing from the true property owner - does anyone care? Nope!