What would be my best option to plant in spring?

[BJE80]

As discussed here: http://www.habitat-talk.com/index.php?threads/brassicas-lots-of-deer-everything-else-not-many-deer-late-season.1968/

I would love to plant brassicas in consecutive years. But I would think I need to having something grow in between and hopefully but some N back into the soil if possible.

Winter Rye, Buckwheat, Oats, Berseem, crimson Clover? etc etc etc.

I would be following up dead brassicas in an attempt to grow something to help with planting consecutive year Brassicas. The last two years my plots have stayed too wet to grow anything till mid-late May. I planted Oats last year and it failed. Nothing grew to be honest. I plant brassicas in mid-July and probably spraying 4th of July. So you are only talking about 6 weeks max from planting time till it will be nuked anyway. What germs the fastest and grows the quickest? I'm leaning towards buckwheat or trying oats again. My problems might be because of the late winters here the last two years.

 

[Terrific_tom]

You could get a little more growing time by frost seeding clover into your dead brassicas in late winter/early spring and then do your brassica planting as planned. Another option that might work is to plant soybeans around Memorial weekend, spray 3 to 4 weeks later and then broadcast your brassicas into your soybeans as planned. I know that you have a smaller plot and the deer might wipe your beans out but that wouldn't be a problem as you are planning on replanting with brassica any way and if some of the beans make it it will just add to the plots attractiveness.

 

[BJE80]

You could get a little more growing time by frost seeding clover into your dead brassicas in late winter/early spring and then do your brassica planting as planned. Another option that might work is to plant soybeans around Memorial weekend, spray 3 to 4 weeks later and then broadcast your brassicas into your soybeans as planned. I know that you have a smaller plot and the deer might wipe your beans out but that wouldn't be a problem as you are planning on replanting with brassica any way and if some of the beans make it it will just add to the plots attractiveness.

Planting soybeans is a hell of a good an idea TT. One I've never thought of. I have always ruled them out due to plot size but you make a great point.

If I frost seeded clover parts of it will be very wet for awhile. I assume I would frost seed crimson clover because it is an annual?

 

[Terrific_tom]

Get what ever clover seed is the cheapest as you will be killing/tilling it any way.

 

[BJE80]

Get what ever clover seed is the cheapest as you will be killing/tilling it any way.

Do the annual clovers grow faster than the perineal ones do?

 

[Terrific_tom]

Do the annual clovers grow faster than the perineal ones do?

In some cases. Crimson would be a good choice.

 

[Terrific_tom]

In some cases. Crimson would be a good choice.

Actually I just checked and crimson is not a good canidate for frost seeding. Red clover would be better for frost seeding.

 

[BJE80]

I've never planted beans before. Broadcast and fence drag? Lightly go over with a disc? I do not have a cultipacker. Just drive over the top? How can I get those large seeds deep enough?

 

[BJE80]

In some cases. Crimson would be a good choice.

The nice part about it is I can plan on both. I can frost seed and I will know by Memorial Day how it is doing. Know what I mean?

 

[wiscwhip]

Soybeans need a minimum soil temperature of 55 to 60 degrees Fahrenheit to germinate. How long does it take that wet soil to reach those temps? Your best bet to have something growing in that plot in the spring is to plant it the fall before. You can frost seed(I would recommend a medium red clover or alsike, or maybe berseem for an annual clover), but there is no guarantee whatsoever that the soil will not become waterlogged to the point that the young plants either drown upon germination or shortly afterwards. The best choice is to have established root systems in place from the previous year to be able to immediately start to soak up and use the excess water in the soil. If you are going to do something in the spring only, buckwheat does ok on wet clay soils and by turning it into green manure, it will eventually start to help loosen that clay by introducing OM via the decomposing plants and roots. The caveat is buckwheat gets best germination when the soil is warm(65+), and again you may have to wait later in the spring to get the soil temps up where you need them in the waterlogged clay, which will leave that soil bare for the early spring, unless you have something in there that will overwinter and take off early, like winter rye and/or clover.

 

[Terrific_tom]

I've never planted beans before. Broadcast and fence drag? Lightly go over with a disc? I do not have a cultipacker. Just drive over the top? How can I get those large seeds deep enough?

After broadcasting , lightly disc [I usually set disc so It is going down about 3 inches ] and cultipac after. I seed at about 70 pounds per acre.

Soybeans need a minimum soil temperature of 55 to 60 degrees Fahrenheit to germinate. How long does it take that wet soil to reach those temps? Your best bet to have something growing in that plot in the spring is to plant it the fall before. You can frost seed(I would recommend a medium red clover or alsike, or maybe berseem for an annual clover), but there is no guarantee whatsoever that the soil will not become waterlogged to the point that the young plants either drown upon germination or shortly afterwards. The best choice is to have established root systems in place from the previous year to be able to immediately start to soak up and use the excess water in the soil. If you are going to do something in the spring only, buckwheat does ok on wet clay soils and by turning it into green manure, it will eventually start to help loosen that clay by introducing OM via the decomposing plants and roots. The caveat is buckwheat gets best germination when the soil is warm(65+), and again you may have to wait later in the spring to get the soil temps up where you need them in the waterlogged clay, which will leave that soil bare for the early spring, unless you have something in there that will overwinter and take off early, like winter rye and/or clover.

wisc he is only about 10 miles at most from me and I have never had problems with soil temp for beans for a Memorial Day planting. Even with the late winters that we have experienced the last 2 years my beans still germinated when planted on Memorial weekend, granted he has clay and I have sandy loam [ I don't know if there is a difference in when soil types warm up]. I do agree that frost seeding may be a problem if he has standing water for a long period of time in spring, but the last 2 winters were not normal so it could be a a viable option if we have a normal winter. Another option would be to mix clover seed in with his brassica planting in late summer. The clover would not do much this fall with the brassicas agressive growth but would be there to take off in spring.

 

[BJE80]

"wisc he is only about 10 miles at most from me "


Speaking of which. When are you coming for a land tour?

 

[wiscwhip]

I think Memorial Day would be fine as well, but BJE stated that he usually sprayed his plot in early July and planted his brassicas in mid July. Soys seem like a total waste of money if they are only going to be in the ground from the last weekend in May until the first week of July, a lot of expense for 5 weeks of growth. On the subject of the soil temps, waterlogged clay will take longer to reach temps than a well drained sandy loam. The water in the upper soil will cool as the temps drop at night and as such, will take more days to reach the same sustained temp as a well drained, drier soil type. How many more days is the variable. I pasted this from an Iowa State research document:

Soybean germination and growth typically begin at temperatures of 46 to 50°F. Temperatures above 50°F speed emergence in much the same way as the overall growth. Optimum temperature for soybean germination is in the lower 80s that are also the optimum temperature for hypocotyl elongation. By planting too early in a cool and wet soil, you inhibit germination, and emergence can then take as long as 4 weeks, making the seed vulnerable to many soil pathogens and insects.

Note the underlined sentence, if you planted on Memorial Day and it happened to take anywhere near 4 weeks to germinate, you would get 1 to 2 weeks growth before you terminated that crop to plant the brassicas. Not much bang for the soybean buck in that plan. If one were to hold off planting brassicas until mid August, it would be more worthwhile, unless the deer hammered them to the dirt before hand anyway. If the seed was free, you have nothing to lose except time and planting expenses, but I don't think I'd be shelling out any big money to buy seed for such a short term proposition. The most viable option would be the seeding of clover at the time of brassica planting. The brassicas will easily outcompete the clover in that initial growth stage, and yet be up and growing come spring. I will add that I personally would go in and broadcast winter rye into the brassicas after the bulbs started to show some decent growth. After the bulbs are well developed, the competition from the newly seeded rye would be minimal at best. The rye and clover could be terminated the following July through spraying or tillage to ready the ground for the next round of brassica/clover.

 

[BJE80]

How about using RR beans then I would not be terminating when I spray and using what is left of them in fall. Just a thought.

 

[wiscwhip]

That would seem like a viable option, but how much would they be competing with your brassicas for moisture and sunlight? May cause your brassica planting to fail?

 

[BJE80]

That would seem like a viable option, but how much would they be competing with your brassicas for moisture and sunlight? May cause your brassica planting to fail?

Not sure. That is why I am here so you guys can tell me if it will work or not. ;)

 

[wiscwhip]

That is the joy of trial and error, we have all been there. ;)You will never know if you don't try it for yourself. That said, your clay could hold enough moisture to supply all those plants with water one year but not another, so it's really a crap shoot. I would say that the sunlight issue would be your biggest concern. If those soybeans were to take off and be doing well by mid July, they could have enough canopy by then to make it very tough for the brassicas to see much growth. In that case, it would not be good. If you have any deer numbers at all and this field is under an acre and not fenced it will most likely be a moot point, the deer will hoover the soys as soon as they find them either way.;)

 

[BJE80]

Well, I am going to plan on putting down red clover in spring. Then see how it does and go from there.

So, for fall. Excatly what should I mix into my brassicas and what kind of seed rates? Clover with the Brassicas and then Rye when bulbs start forming?

 

[Ogemaone]

I'm up in your neck of the woods. I plant brassica mixed with clover at the same time as well as the rye. I planted this pic July 1st. You could see young clover coming up under the brassicas and my hope is that is will take off in spring until I spray and start over again.

 

[BJE80]

I'm up in your neck of the woods. I plant brassica mixed with clover at the same time as well as the rye. I planted this pic July 1st. You could see young clover coming up under the brassicas and my hope is that is will take off in spring until I spray and start over again.
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How does that really long skinny strip food plot design work for you? Do deer feel safer in a plot like that than more wide open? Would be a good gun plot but not so much bow.