What to do

[Bill Loser]

Have about 5 acres of "low land" it's an old pasture, it gets pretty wet but the grasses and scrub brush seem to like it. There is rod, box elder, some willow, aspens, and a variety of bushes, along with 1 volunteer dolgo apple tree.
I would like to do something with it, get the grasses.to.grow in thicker/heavier. Maybe some sort of border planting to close it off more. Not sure.
Do I burn it? Mow it? The deer kinda like it as it is. So not looking to change it much except for thicker and a border.
Thoughts?

 

[bigboreblr]

You know what grasses are in it? Ever do a soil test over there? Any other soil issues like compaction.

Soil test might tell you something that'll make the grass grow better.

Privacy edges that include shrubs are hard to do much to without damage or killing the shrubs.

Maybe just add a few more shrubs and have a mowing route to keep it a mix of shrubs n grass Anything growing too tall in there, you might want to remove or cut the tops of it.

Dogwood is perfect for wetter spots. Cage every other spot you want, then let it grow 3 year or so. Move the cages to grow some new ones after that. Anything I have planted without cges doesn't end well. Lots of other options for trees too prairie willow, spruces, even could do some juniper or red cedar.

 

[rocksnstumps]

How high a border do you want? Shrub or tree height? Can't beat dogwoods for a pretty thick border that gets 8-10 ft high or so.

For tree height stuff white spruce do ok along wet areas, just not in them. Really wet stuff is more suited for black spruce but believe that is a slow grower and the trees are not very wide either. Around here another near wet areas is hemlock and you could always try to promote more Aspen. My buddy had a small section close to his wetter ground that they stopped farming and it quickly filled in with balsam poplar. Stuff grows and spreads quick. Can also be too aggressive so mowing the edge to keep in check is likely needed to keep from spreading. In his case a snow mobile trail is mowed adjacent so that stops the advance. Can you brush hog your edges if needed?

 

[Bill Loser]

You know what grasses are in it? Ever do a soil test over there? Any other soil issues like compaction.

Soil test might tell you something that'll make the grass grow better.

Privacy edges that include shrubs are hard to do much to without damage or killing the shrubs.

Maybe just add a few more shrubs and have a mowing route to keep it a mix of shrubs n grass Anything growing too tall in there, you might want to remove or cut the tops of it.

Dogwood is perfect for wetter spots. Cage every other spot you want, then let it grow 3 year or so. Move the cages to grow some new ones after that. Anything I have planted without cges doesn't end well. Lots of other options for trees too prairie willow, spruces, even could do some juniper or red cedar.

I was sitting out there last night thinking what if I just used cuttings from all the existing dog woods and use that to make a screen?
How long does it take to establish.from cuttings?

 

[Bill Loser]

How high a border do you want? Shrub or tree height? Can't beat dogwoods for a pretty thick border that gets 8-10 ft high or so.

For tree height stuff white spruce do ok along wet areas, just not in them. Really wet stuff is more suited for black spruce but believe that is a slow grower and the trees are not very wide either. Around here another near wet areas is hemlock and you could always try to promote more Aspen. My buddy had a small section close to his wetter ground that they stopped farming and it quickly filled in with balsam poplar. Stuff grows and spreads quick. Can also be too aggressive so mowing the edge to keep in check is likely needed to keep from spreading. In his case a snow mobile trail is mowed adjacent so that stops the advance. Can you brush hog your edges if needed?

I will look in to the balsam.poplars that might be a good option. I like the idea of juniper also but that's pretty slow growing?

 

[omicron1792]

I would spray it twice next year with triclopy and imazapic. Once in spring and once mid summer. That will release native grasses and forbs. Next winter can throw some extra NWSG and forbs if needed.

You can burn it after the 2nd spraying if you like, do it late summer so native have a chance to get going before winter.

 

[Bill Loser]

triclopy and imazapic

What are these?

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

If you burn it, you will kill off your existing shrubs, so I’d avoid that. Then you will be left with less cover than you currently have.

Wet areas really limit your tree and shrub options. Black spruce and tamarack can tolerate wet soils better than most trees, so they are worth a try.

Red osier dogwood can grow from layering, so just bend over a tall branch, put a couple buckets of dirt near the end of the branch to hold it down and it will sprout roots where the branch touches the soil. Do this every few years to expand your shrubs.

Shrub willows might be another decent options along with alders. Both tolerate wet soil and form thickets. Good luck, shrub filled low spots can be wildlife magnets.

 

[Bill Loser]

Thanks Ben, I have some black willow that from browsing? have become bushes. A small area of this i was thinking of digging a small pond,, most of this pasture from what I've seen is water 1 to 2 feet down.
I will try that with the dog woods, those are mostly what I would like to expand on in here.

 

[SD51555]

A No-vote from me on balsam poplar. I kill every single one I see. I was out killing them today and I stepped on a bear.

A bear.

I'd dig one good water hole in the middle. Then I'd make banana shaped depressions with an excavator, maybe 4-5' wide, and 16' long or so. Dig down just 12-18", and use all of that dirt to make a tight and tall matching shaped berm right next to it, but leave enough bedding space between the berm and the dugout. It gives you some high spots to plant things that need to be up out of the water, and it gives you some subtle elevation changes that deer may find appealing if it's windy. Have the banana open to the SE to protect from NW winds. You could knock that out in a couple days with a large rental mini-excavator.

If you have stumps and logs and brush you can dump in there on a pile, I'd do that too. Make an exclusion zone from the deer and watch the birds fill it up. Zone 5 is getting to be a stretch for my awareness on what will grow there, but one idea that comes to mind beyond ROD, is gray dogwood and maybe speckled alder. Alder ain't much for browse and has to be reset as cover, but when you whack it down, you get back 15x the stems, and they're cover again before the next season.

 

[fishin coyote]

Is there any photographic evidence of said bear?

 

[Tree Spud]

You can try hybrid willows, Fast growing shrub that prefer moist sites. Would make a good border.

 

[SD51555]

Is there any photographic evidence of said bear?

This was all the closer I was willing to get to a startled bear. We were about 10’ away from each other.

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[Telemark]

I was sitting out there last night thinking what if I just used cuttings from all the existing dog woods and use that to make a screen?
How long does it take to establish.from cuttings?

Probably about 3 or 4 years. Do yourself a favor and pot the cuttings as soon as you cut them. The first season, just get them to establish roots in a potting mix. Then plant them out either that Fall or the following Spring. Use weed mats and cages. Fertilize a few times throughout their first summer in the ground. Cut them back in late winter tonget them to grow bushier. Hey presto, more cuttings! Fertilize them again the following summer. You might need one more year if you lack sunlight one summer, but this should do the trick.

Pull the cages, rinse and repeat.

 

[Telemark]

I'd dig one good water hole in the middle. Then I'd make banana shaped depressions with an excavator, maybe 4-5' wide, and 16' long or so. Dig down just 12-18", and use all of that dirt to make a tight and tall matching shaped berm right next to it, but leave enough bedding space between the berm and the dugout. It gives you some high spots to plant things that need to be up out of the water, and it gives you some subtle elevation changes that deer may find appealing if it's windy. Have the banana open to the SE to protect from NW winds. You could knock that out in a couple days with a large rental mini-excavator.

This is something I would seriously consider, depending on the lay of the land.

In addition, or instead, you could use some of the dug up dirt to build several "mounds" just high ebough that they stay dry. Remeneber that the dirt wil settle, so keep them higher than you think they should be. Ring the mound with spruce. And plant 1 to 3 pines in the midddle. This will give you some killer bedding, especially when the weather gets nasty.

This gives a food-in-cover that I am honestly not fond of in most situations, but if you have 5 acres of it in Zone 5, I assume you can make them move on your property without a problem.

 

[Bill Loser]

A No-vote from me on balsam poplar. I kill every single one I see. I was out killing them today and I stepped on a bear.

A bear.

I'd dig one good water hole in the middle. Then I'd make banana shaped depressions with an excavator, maybe 4-5' wide, and 16' long or so. Dig down just 12-18", and use all of that dirt to make a tight and tall matching shaped berm right next to it, but leave enough bedding space between the berm and the dugout. It gives you some high spots to plant things that need to be up out of the water, and it gives you some subtle elevation changes that deer may find appealing if it's windy. Have the banana open to the SE to protect from NW winds. You could knock that out in a couple days with a large rental mini-excavator.

If you have stumps and logs and brush you can dump in there on a pile, I'd do that too. Make an exclusion zone from the deer and watch the birds fill it up. Zone 5 is getting to be a stretch for my awareness on what will grow there, but one idea that comes to mind beyond ROD, is gray dogwood and maybe speckled alder. Alder ain't much for browse and has to be reset as cover, but when you whack it down, you get back 15x the stems, and they're cover again before the next season.

What is the issue with the poplar?

 

[Bill Loser]

Thanks everyone for the responses. Full disclosure I'm not very good with the habitat stuff (I don't even know 100%how to take cuttings.)
I'm going to try to dig a small waterhole next year, I really like that idea. I'm thinking of digging it close enough to the edge o want to screen that I can use the dirt berm as part of the screen .
I'm going to use probably some white pine or spruce there.
I like the idea of more dogwoods, I'm going to learn how to do the cuttings, and get some gray and maybe some silky?planted this year. Ive read that gray is more palatable to deer is that true?

 

[fishin coyote]

This was all the closer I was willing to get to a startled bear. We were about 10’ away from each other.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Been there and done that. It’s good for the blood pressure

 

[SD51555]

What is the issue with the poplar?

They grow faster than bull thistle, nothing uses it for anything, the firewood is junk, and once you have one, your seedbank will forever be charged.

They’re just a nasty invasive if you happen to site match them properly.


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[Bowsnbucks]

Someone mentioned hemlocks above as good for growing near water. I'll second that - if - you have hemlocks in / around your area as natives. Introducing a plant that isn't found natively in any area is fighting nature. Hemlocks grow very well right on the edges of streams here in Pa., as well as on drier ground. Some of the best deer cover I've hunted is creek bottoms loaded thick with hemlocks of all ages. Natural regen in those areas. Hemlock makes excellent thermal / security cover. FWIW.