What Herbicide for Pollinator Field?

SwampCat

5 year old buck +
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I have a pretty good crop of johnson grass coming in. I need to spray as soon as i can get in there with a tractor. There is some nwsg - but I am still leaning towards cleth since I know it wont kill nearly all the nwsg, is pretty good on johnson grass, and wont harm the broadleafs. Is there a better reason to use Plateau - or something else?
 
Here's some johnsongrass (yellow in the background) 11 days after spraying with Plateau. It was tall too. I don't see many spots with it anymore.

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Here's some johnsongrass (yellow in the background) 11 days after spraying with Plateau. It was tall too. I don't see many spots with it anymore.

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Do you find plateau to be gentle on your “flowers”
 
Do you find plateau to be gentle on your “flowers”
Yes, it was. I do need to burn it again soon because the native grasses are choking out everything except brambles now. I have some flowers, forbs, but the NWSGs are rough on them. I think burning almost every fall is going to be something I need to do to keep native grasses from overtaking it.
 
Yes, it was. I do need to burn it again soon because the native grasses are choking out everything except brambles now. I have some flowers, forbs, but the NWSGs are rough on them. I think burning almost every fall is going to be something I need to do to keep native grasses from overtaking it.
If the plateau is not working on the NWSG, why not switch over to clethodim and spray when they are coming out of dormancy?
 
If the plateau is not working on the NWSG, why not switch over to clethodim and spray when they are coming out of dormancy?
The plateau was used at and soon after establishment to control johnsongrass. I haven't used it since then. I don't have any experience with clethodim on NWSGs. I was going to do the burning in an area where I wanted summer forage production instead of grass cover. Based on some of Dr. Harper's latest research, burning in early fall and using 1-2 year return intervals was best to promote more forbs. I can make a permanent firebreak around this 3-4 acre spot and burn during September or October each year or 2 to maintain it in a forb dominated patch.
 
I have sprayed cleth on nwsg - mostly little bluestem - in May. From what I had read, 50% of nwsg would be killed. I would say that is not far off what I got. Caution - my experience is from ONE attempt.
 
The plateau was used at and soon after establishment to control johnsongrass. I haven't used it since then. I don't have any experience with clethodim on NWSGs. I was going to do the burning in an area where I wanted summer forage production instead of grass cover. Based on some of Dr. Harper's latest research, burning in early fall and using 1-2 year return intervals was best to promote more forbs. I can make a permanent firebreak around this 3-4 acre spot and burn during September or October each year or 2 to maintain it in a forb dominated patch.
I think I recall Harper stating that disking will also promote forbs over grasses. I wonder if after a burn, you ran a disk through a few strips to see how those areas responded the following year versus the burned only areas?
 
I think I recall Harper stating that disking will also promote forbs over grasses. I wonder if after a burn, you ran a disk through a few strips to see how those areas responded the following year versus the burned only areas?
I've seen great response from the native seed bank after dormant season disking, but that only happened for one year. It wasn't followed up over multiple years. So, I don't know of the cumulative effects it might have of repeatedly doing that. Here's a document from some of Dr. Harper's latest research:
 

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And, here's a recent video of him discussing their findings:

 
I was thinking more of a "rotational" disking effort. If you burn the whole unit every two years but disk 1/3 with every burn, you'd be discing every 6 years in the same spot. Might see the response you're looking for if doing it less frequently.
 
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On the left side of that picture is a stand of little bluestem I sprayed last spring with cleth. It thinned it - but not enough to get an indlux of pollinator plants - some - but nothing like this shooting lane I spray with gly every summer. I get zero wildlife use in the nwsg
 
Native Hunter has a pretty good mix of both mwsg and forbs, and I think all he does is mow - pretty sure he doesnt burn
 
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On the left side of that picture is a stand of little bluestem I sprayed last spring with cleth. It thinned it - but not enough to get an indlux of pollinator plants - some - but nothing like this shooting lane I spray with gly every summer. I get zero wildlife use in the nwsg
I believe the wildlife usage I see in my old field areas are due to other "stuff" in the NWSGs. But, I don't know if it would be the same if I had a monoculture of grass. I don't think I would see the same usage, but I can't say for certain. What I need to do is keep knocking back the NWSGs as efficiently as possible. I think by breaking up my areas with permanent firebreaks and creating a scenario I can easily burn a 3-5 acre area off periodically, quickly and whenever I need, I can accomplish that. Or, at least that's what I gather I can do from what Dr. Harper has been able to do. I want one area devoted to almost all forbs, and another, devoted to bedding without becoming a forest. From what he's demonstrated, I should be able to do that easily. I've seen a huge uptick in the bedding that is happening on my place and the daytime activity since converting the hay fields with old field management.
 
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