Weeds tell the story??

Bowsnbucks

5 year old buck +
I read somewhere - and I can't re-locate where - that certain weeds tell you what your soil needs ........ or has too much of ........ nutrient-wise. The gist of the article was that if you have a proliferation of certain weeds, it means you're high in phosphorus, for example. Or if you have another type of weed, you might be low in potassium.

Anyone have any knowledge or experience with observed weed species aligning with soil nutrient needs - or surpluses??
 
This would be very interesting to know.
 
There were a few different guys posted some really good ones in just the past couple weeks. I don't remember where they are either. Fire up the google and toy around with the search words, and you can dig up a few good ones.



I've got a few more bookmarked at home. Read enough of them, and the lessons begin to overlap. One gem from that last one from UConn, is white clover is identified as a low fertility soil indicator. Boy is that the case. I can grow white clover on dead clay like a boss.
 
I think “prolferate” can be a result of more than one thing. On part of my ground, I have Blackland Prairie - calcaeous soil - pH 7.8. Cedar, Persimmon, and Honey Locust are the trees that proliferate. I have planted 20 acres of loblolly pine - every one died within three years. I have planted a variety of fruit trees - they either die or languish at planting size for years. So, I dont know that it is so much that those three tree species excel in calcareous soil - or is it they can tolerate that soil - while other tree species cant. Those three tree species also grow very well in deep bottomland soils with a pH of 6.7 - as do almost every other tree species.

So yes - those three species when they are the only tree species can be indicator species of some soil deficiency or anomaly - but their existence in a mixed forest may not mean anything.

In this case - the lack of species is just as much an indicator as the presence of species.
 
I think “prolferate” can be a result of more than one thing. On part of my ground, I have Blackland Prairie - calcaeous soil - pH 7.8. Cedar, Persimmon, and Honey Locust are the trees that proliferate. I have planted 20 acres of loblolly pine - every one died within three years. I have planted a variety of fruit trees - they either die or languish at planting size for years. So, I dont know that it is so much that those three tree species excel in calcareous soil - or is it they can tolerate that soil - while other tree species cant. Those three tree species also grow very well in deep bottomland soils with a pH of 6.7 - as do almost every other tree species.

So yes - those three species when they are the only tree species can be indicator species of some soil deficiency or anomaly - but their existence in a mixed forest may not mean anything.

In this case - the lack of species is just as much an indicator as the presence of species.
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Compaction, lack of soil aeration, soil moisture retention, soil organic matter, lack of microbial life are some other major factors that lead to certain species proliferating. I’m sure there are more I’m forgetting
 
There were a few different guys posted some really good ones in just the past couple weeks. I don't remember where they are either.

This thread is where a couple were shared recently:
 
SD51555 -

The links you mentioned in post #3 have some good info. One even had another link to home-made herbicides for common weeds. We have some of the weeds shown in those links at camp. I'll have to do more soil samples to see what they show, as compared to what weeds are present.

We also have some of those weeds here at home in our landscape. The soil descriptions of what those weeds like is spot-on.
 
SD51555 -

The links you mentioned in post #3 have some good info. One even had another link to home-made herbicides for common weeds. We have some of the weeds shown in those links at camp. I'll have to do more soil samples to see what they show, as compared to what weeds are present.

We also have some of those weeds here at home in our landscape. The soil descriptions of what those weeds like is spot-on.
Yeah, it seems like a never ending case of figuring out what's going on. I've done the soil tests. I've dug up my soil and looked at it in my hands. I keep a note in my head of whether or not to expect it to have an oxygen shortage (compaction). Then the unintended plants kinda pull it all together.

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and smells like a duck, it's horsetail. And it needs a bunch of calcitic lime.

This weekend is gonna try my trust in the system. Biomass was off the charts last weekend already, and some of it was stuff I wish it wasn't. Still holding out hope that the later summer mowing cleans it all up like it did last year. That's the challenge of evolution though. This year the system is gonna be one year further along that it was last year.
 
Lots of excess nitrogen is another one.......Dog fennel seems to really like the free N
 
I read somewhere - and I can't re-locate where - that certain weeds tell you what your soil needs ........ or has too much of ........ nutrient-wise. The gist of the article was that if you have a proliferation of certain weeds, it means you're high in phosphorus, for example. Or if you have another type of weed, you might be low in potassium.

Anyone have any knowledge or experience with observed weed species aligning with soil nutrient needs - or surpluses??

To some extent, but other factors are the primary driving factors rather than nutrients. The extent to which land ranges from dry to mesic to hydric is one of the primary factors. Two more important ones are the amount of available sunlight and PH. Beyond that, factors like altitude and zones are high on the list. Some plants are very sensitive about the primary factors. Just ask any gardener who tries to grow azaleas or blueberries on high PH soil.

Since a lot of this subject is unclear beyond what I have just stated, there is a cult out there on the Internet with a bunch of mumbo jumbo - just like there is on a lot of other things. I personally will stick with proven science. A soil test will tell you what you need to know. Yes, when I look at ground and see cattails growing, I know it's wet there. If I don't like it, I can drain the soil. But, my methodology is to work with nature rather than against it. If something is easy to change and you want to change it, then by all means go ahead. But if someone's goal is add the nutrients to grow Overcup Oaks and Willows in the desert, I feel sorry for them....
 
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^^^^^ Good advice. I do soil tests at camp & at home, and they're my answer. After reading that article online, I was curious to see if anyone noticed a correlation between the weeds they have and their soil needs. Kind of like farmers reading the sky or wind direction to tell when rain is coming.
 
The species composition in any area is sort of like symptoms that stem from all of the underlying variables at play. The landscape is very dynamic as you move across it in many different ways and that list of variables is pretty complex when you take ALL of them into account that impact any one spot on the map…..The landscape is also rarely static for long periods of time….Environmental changes occur from drought to tornadoes to flooding to succession etc……Nature is designed with such a broad and diverse amount of plant species so that there’s a plant or group of plants to fit every combination of variables that can be thrown at her…..So that regardless of what changes occur, its able to adapt with it. Natural vegetation….or weeds, if you want to call them that….are definite indicators of these variables.

Probably the most common issue for the majority of people right now is lack of or low levels of soil carbon. Fixing that issue takes care of a lot problems.
 
People overlook the fact that mankind's intervention (which can be good or bad) has more to do with species composition than anything else. Johnson Grass isn't even native to this country, but it has taken over every hayfield in my area. I thank God that both of my adjoining neighbors who had hayfields have now started cropping. Until they did, I had to go around the fence lines every year and kill the JG that was creeping onto my property. Their gly spraying each year before planting the crops now takes care of the JG bordering me.

My prairie is 85% species that I planted, which did not exist before - not on my farm or any other farm in my area. Unless I quit maintaining it and let briers and trees take over through succession, that composition is not going to change.

Until I planted them, Grey Dogwood, ROD, Arrowwood Viburnum and Witch Hazel did not exist on my farm or the surrounding area. Now these shrubs are popping up everywhere on my land.

80% of the trees planted in my tree planting are species that did not exist on my place or the surrounding area before I planted them. Yet, they are thriving and are the dominant species. Why and how? Because a man (me) intervened.

So, in all of these cases, mankind's intervention has dictated the prominent species composition. All I did was use the common sense things mentioned in my first post above to choose the species to fit the land (and give them the advantage over competition). Nature takes care of the rest.....

On more thing - in a climax forest, the climax tree species that gets the advantage in the beginning is the one that will ultimately prevail. It's the one that gets its head above the others and gets the sunlight. Oaks, sweetgums, yellow poplar, sycamore, etc. are all trees that can be climax species. Give your oaks the advantage in the beginning so that they can get ahead of the others. Once again - mankind's intervention can determine the destiny of the plant composition - including a climax forest.
 
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On this same thought of plants being indicators........Any ideas on why a field would turn into a goldenrod monoculture??
 
On this same thought of plants being indicators........Any ideas on why a field would turn into a goldenrod monoculture??
Just a couple thoughts. It's a successional plant. Likes to appear after a burn. It propagates from seed but spreads thru rhizomes (think Johnsongrass). Likes wetter soils.

Here's a good summary:
https://www.fs.fed.us/database/feis/plants/forb/solcan/all.html
 
Yeah I think this is definitely a successional thing at play but there hasn’t been any fire. It was once part of my food plot but I let it grow up to give the back of the field more security. It had a good bit of dog fennel in it as first along with a hodge podge of other plants…..Then I noticed a few golden rods appearing and in the matter of about 2 years the golden rod has completely taken over all the other species. This year I have pretty close to a monoculture of it. I’m curious to see where it goes from here because I have to assume that it wont remain like that forever. My best guess with things like this is that the goldenrod must be conditioning the soil in some form or fashion to lay the groundwork for the next successional stage.
 
Yeah I think this is definitely a successional thing at play but there hasn’t been any fire. It was once part of my food plot but I let it grow up to give the back of the field more security. It had a good bit of dog fennel in it as first along with a hodge podge of other plants…..Then I noticed a few golden rods appearing and in the matter of about 2 years the golden rod has completely taken over all the other species. This year I have pretty close to a monoculture of it. I’m curious to see where it goes from here because I have to assume that it wont remain like that forever. My best guess with things like this is that the goldenrod must be conditioning the soil in some form or fashion to lay the groundwork for the next successional stage.
If you're not loving it, I accidentally discovered a stiff shot of lime can knock out goldenrod on my place. That wasn't my intention, but it happened.
 
If you're not loving it, I accidentally discovered a stiff shot of lime can knock out goldenrod on my place. That wasn't my intention, but it happened.
Its not really bothering me……The screening cover isnt gonna be as tall now since it took over all of the dog fennel but in the grand scheme of things I don’t think its gonna matter too much. I’m actually more interested in watching where it goes from here on its own now.



Something else I’ve been thinking about here lately that kinda related to this same discussion is the fact that even though I’m following nature’s principles and blueprint with soil building, etc,…….I’m actually still missing a big component in not having “animal impact” to these areas……And by that I mean large herds of grazers playing a role. I suspect that these natural processes were trying to mimic would progress a bit differently if they were in the mix. What I’m actually watching is successional soil building with a missing component.
 
Our valley property was entered into a program 10 years ago or better. It was nuked and seeded in a diverse mix of forbs and grasses. We burn it all off in a 3 year rotation every spring. (one third of the total getting burned every year) The wild flowers have taken a strong hold but the grasses arent very thick. (with the exception of RCG) I have been meaning to do an early season spraying to take out the cool season stuff after it starts growing post burn. Just never seem to find the time to do it. Anyway, what we have is a strong stand of golden rod with wild flowers and a few native grasses mixed in. Oh and the RCG. One of these years I will have the time to wage war on it. I don't half ass things so it is going to be in for it big time once i get after it.
 
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