Weeds In Plot

[Jerry-B-WI]

For the past 3 years I've had a bad infestation of unwanted plants in my food plot. Three years ago it was Marestail, last year it was Timothy and this year it's Devil's pitchfork. Is this just a natural progression and how can I fight it?

I've been applying lime and then I disc the plot and fertilize then plant. This year I want to broadcast WR but the brassicas are pretty thick and I'm not sure if the rye will make it to the ground. What's the latest I could broadcast WR in NE Wisconsin?

 

[SD51555]

For the past 3 years I've had a bad infestation of unwanted plants in my food plot. Three years ago it was Marestail, last year it was Timothy and this year it's Devil's pitchfork. Is this just a natural progression and how can I fight it?

I've been applying lime and then I disc the plot and fertilize then plant. This year I want to broadcast WR but the brassicas are pretty thick and I'm not sure if the rye will make it to the ground. What's the latest I could broadcast WR in NE Wisconsin?

Quit with the disc and fertilizer for a few years, and flip it to rye/clover/chicory if that’ll still bring you deer. Super weeds love tillage and fertilizer. You have to change conditions before you can change outcomes.

All the super weeds love tillage because it knocks out biological fertility function, and those weeds are specifically adept at thriving in an environment without biological fertility.

I’d try rye as late as mid October, and I’m further north than all of Wisconsin. Really, once the deer start on the brassicas, I’d be spreading it.


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[Wild Thing]

For the past 3 years I've had a bad infestation of unwanted plants in my food plot. Three years ago it was Marestail, last year it was Timothy and this year it's Devil's pitchfork. Is this just a natural progression and how can I fight it?

I've been applying lime and then I disc the plot and fertilize then plant. This year I want to broadcast WR but the brassicas are pretty thick and I'm not sure if the rye will make it to the ground. What's the latest I could broadcast WR in NE Wisconsin?

The rye seed will eventually find its way to the soil surface Jerry-B-WI. Of course, it is probably best if you broadcast the rye seed before the plants completely canopy but even if some of the seed lands on top of the brassica leaves, it will continue to fall onto the soil surface as it rains or with deer walking/browsing through it, etc. I try to broadcast the rye into my brassicas about 4 weeks after planting ...and it also helps if you seed at the proper rate rather than having way too much brassica seed down in the first place. BTW, I am in Upper Michigan on the WI border.

While I prefer to plant cereal grains in August, I have planted as late as mid-late September. Once rye germinates, it will continue to grow at ambient temperatures down to about 34 degrees F. Even if you don't see a lot of growth this fall, the rye will be there in the spring to feed your deer, keep your soil covered, keep living roots in the soil, etc, so I would go ahead and broadcast it whenever you can.

I also agree with @SD51555 that tillage encourages weed growth (as well as having many other detrimental issues), so I stopped turning dirt at my place 8 years ago. I still have weed issues from time to time (mostly from buying "dirty" seed I believe), but not nearly the issues I would see if I was still using tillage.

 

[omicron1792]

Agree with others.

If you “Have” to till, then till, wait a few weeks and let weeds come up. Spray them with gly, then plant.

Best result is stop tilling. Use a ton of rye (150lbs an acre) and the allelopathic effect will help with the weeds.

 

[Wild Thing]

If you “Have” to till, then till, wait a few weeks and let weeds come up. Spray them with gly, then plant

Very much agree with this.

 

[omicron1792]

Read the throw and mow thread on this site by crimson n camo. Just found this quote from him.

Something to keep in mind as you decide on the best route for you is that often times we look to treat the symptoms of our issues instead of addressing the root causes. For instance, in traditional plotting many folks would look at your mullein issues and think….”I need to spray to eliminate that weed.”….which is a symptom of soil disturbance…..With one of the no-till techiniques like throw and mow…..it’s much more geared toward addressing the root cause….To deal with pioneer species you would look to instead address the pioneer soil conditions….if not then you’ll continue treating symptoms. The traditional method of chemicals and tillage has went so far down the rabbit hole of treating symptoms that now were to the point of chemical resistance trying to keep those pioneer "weeds" from returning. Mother Nature will keep adapting.

 

[SD51555]

Tillage can be a necessary evil sometimes. I used to rail hard against all tillage and spraying. I've since been humbled and realized those things do have a place. When I started my new plot last year, I had to do tillage just to level out the soil. I had very uneven terrain that was difficult to get equipment across, like a mower. i also needed to knock out some weeds that glyphosate wouldn't get. Reducing those things is a doable goal, but a person has to know how to keep the loop closed so the weeds can't come storming back in so quickly.

If a person must till to get weeds under control, I'd do it as late in the season as possible just so there's no time for a new flush to come while you're trying to get a crop going. Then you can flip back to rye/chicory/clover and friends to get it right again.

 

[omicron1792]

Tillage can be a necessary evil sometimes. I used to rail hard against all tillage and spraying. I've since been humbled and realized those things do have a place. When I started my new plot last year, I had to do tillage just to level out the soil. I had very uneven terrain that was difficult to get equipment across, like a mower. i also needed to knock out some weeds that glyphosate wouldn't get. Reducing those things is a doable goal, but a person has to know how to keep the loop closed so the weeds can't come storming back in so quickly.

If a person must till to get weeds under control, I'd do it as late in the season as possible just so there's no time for a new flush to come while you're trying to get a crop going. Then you can flip back to rye/chicory/clover and friends to get it right again.

Good advice. Love what you do at your place

 

[Wild Thing]

Yes, I had to break out the tillage equipment this year for the first time in 8 years. 3 of my smaller plots had become uneven over the years from the soil settling where I had dug out stumps or rocks when I opened them up. The No-Till drill is a wonderful piece of equipment, but it can't get seed into the soil when both sides of the drill are riding higher than the low spots.... Anyway, it brought back fond memories of one other reason why I stopped turning dirt....picking rocks! When I turn dirt here, I have to pick rocks.

I had a 12' cultivator but sold it after going no till. I did keep this wing from a larger cultivator just in case I needed to do something like this in the future. Hopefully I won't need it again for at least another 8 years...


This is what we have in our soil up here. The soil is actually a very good clay/loam soil once you get the rocks out....but it doesn't come without some effort.






Remember....I already did this 8 years ago when these plots were first opened up. Hard to believe I can grow this many more rocks in only 8 years....


I left this one for "seed". No problem, the drill will ride right over the top of it with no issues when I plant in the future....


After running over them with the landscape rake, I dragged it up a little to get it pretty level again...


and to get out some of the smaller rocks...


But finally I was able to drill the seed for a perennial clover plot....


and a week or two later, we've got the rye nurse crop germinating...

 

[omicron1792]

Good looking dirt wild thing. It is thanking you for the regenerative ag!

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I feel your rock "harvest", WT. Ours at camp are between softball size and up to about 16" across - but ours are flatter than your rounder ones. Pickin' rocks is pickin' rocks - no matter the size. Our camp needs to do as you guys do - less tillage ......... and smarter seed choices / rotations. Plowing & discing at our place doesn't keep weeds down, but it does a good job of damaging our discs and other equipment.

That new perennial clover rye plot looks GREAT!!!

 

[Wild Thing]

Good looking dirt wild thing. It is thanking you for the regenerative ag!

Thanks omicron. I think you are right. That dirt had not been turned in 8 years.

 

[Wild Thing]

I feel your rock "harvest", WT. Ours at camp are between softball size and up to about 16" across - but ours are flatter than your rounder ones. Pickin' rocks is pickin' rocks - no matter the size. Our camp needs to do as you guys do - less tillage ......... and smarter seed choices / rotations. Plowing & discing at our place doesn't keep weeds down, but it does a good job of damaging our discs and other equipment.

That new perennial clover rye plot looks GREAT!!!

Thanks BnB. The 2 other small plots I did this year look the same.

There is no question that eliminating the soil cultivation has save me time and money since we went no-till. I used to log over 200-220 hours per year on my tractor when I was tilling and picking rocks every year. Since I went no-till I now log only around 100 hours per year....and my back isn't sore and I haven't blown out a knee since I blew out both of them the last few years I was picking rocks.

I wish our rocks only came in sizes up to 16" but that isn't the case here. This is one of 3 piles of rocks and wood I picked out of one 3.5 acre plot we opened up 10 years ago...


We find some pretty big ones...


and we also find some Giants!


It all starts here with a timber harvest, followed by a dozer to push out the stumps and large rocks...


Once we get the smaller rocks and wood out of the plots the soil is very good...


These photos were taken in 2016 - the last year I ever turned any dirt here until this year. I may have leveled out some small plots this year, but I will never turn the dirt in these larger plots again and they are doing just fine.


This is the same field last year when it was planted in alfalfa.


Sorry about getting off track some on the "Weeds..." thread Jerry-B-WI. I keep the weeds at bay in the perennial plots with an annual spraying of Clethodim and 2-4,DB....and the rye in my cover crops keeps most of the weeds at bay in those types of plots....and, of course the no-tillage helps for sure.

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

Thanks BnB. The 2 other small plots I did this year look the same.

There is no question that eliminating the soil cultivation has save me time and money since we went no-till. I used to log over 200-220 hours per year on my tractor when I was tilling and picking rocks every year. Since I went no-till I now log only around 100 hours per year....and my back isn't sore and I haven't blown out a knee since I blew out both of them the last few years I was picking rocks.

I wish our rocks only came in sizes up to 16" but that isn't the case here. This is one of 3 piles of rocks and wood I picked out of one 3.5 acre plot we opened up 10 years ago...
View attachment 57130

We find some pretty big ones...
View attachment 57131

and we also find some Giants!
View attachment 57132

It all starts here with a timber harvest, followed by a dozer to push out the stumps and large rocks...
View attachment 57133

Once we get the smaller rocks and wood out of the plots the soil is very good...
View attachment 57134

These photos were taken in 2016 - the last year I ever turned any dirt here until this year. I may have leveled out some small plots this year, but I will never turn the dirt in these larger plots again and they are doing just fine.
View attachment 57135

This is the same field last year when it was planted in alfalfa.
View attachment 57136

Sorry about getting off track some on the "Weeds..." thread Jerry-B-WI. I keep the weeds at bay in the perennial plots with an annual spraying of Clethodim and 2-4,DB....and the rye in my cover crops keeps most of the weeds at bay in those types of plots....and, of course the no-tillage helps for sure.

No problem with a little off track, I like to look at other plots and dream of what I'd like to have. Cleth is for grassy weeds? What's the 2-4,DB for? Will either of them hurt a brassica plot?

The reason I disc is that I don't have any other equipment other than a backpack sprayer and a atv spreader. Would throw and mow work if the only way I can mow is with a string trimmer?

 

[Wild Thing]

No problem with a little off track, I like to look at other plots and dream of what I'd like to have. Cleth is for grassy weeds? What's the 2-4,DB for? Will either of them hurt a brassica plot?

The reason I disc is that I don't have any other equipment other than a backpack sprayer and a atv spreader. Would throw and mow work if the only way I can mow is with a string trimmer?

Yes - Clethodim is a grass-specific herbicide so it only kills grasses. 2-4,DB is for treating broadleaf weeds in clovers and alfalfa. It will not kill grasses, but it will kill broadleaf plants other than clovers or alfalfa. You can use the Clethodim in your brassicas to kill grasses if you have them but you would not want to use 2-4,DB as it would wipe out your brassicas.

Throw & mow would work even with a string trimmer, but it certainly would be the hard way. Hopefully you can come up with a rotary mower soon to help you out.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I had to till my fall plot this year. It is the only chance I had at a plot. Not much for soil moisture and zero rain doesn’t make for much of a plot.


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[Bowsnbucks]

Thanks BnB. The 2 other small plots I did this year look the same.

There is no question that eliminating the soil cultivation has save me time and money since we went no-till. I used to log over 200-220 hours per year on my tractor when I was tilling and picking rocks every year. Since I went no-till I now log only around 100 hours per year....and my back isn't sore and I haven't blown out a knee since I blew out both of them the last few years I was picking rocks.

I wish our rocks only came in sizes up to 16" but that isn't the case here. This is one of 3 piles of rocks and wood I picked out of one 3.5 acre plot we opened up 10 years ago...

Your rocks are much bigger than we have. When I said 16" is about our biggest rock size - that's an average of the biggest. We have some go to about 20" - 22", but those are fewer in number. Your rocks are much bulkier and heavier. We have enough of them to be a pain to deal with, and we make piles here and there with them. I don't know how you deal with those big ones.

 

[Wild Thing]

I don't know how you deal with those big ones.

The really big ones we pushed out of the plot with a dozer. The rest of them that don't pop up with the cultivator, I dig out with the front end loader bucket. Most of the time we can roll them into the bucket. If they are too big for that, I push them off to the side with the bucket.

Dig em out with the bucket...


and then push them like this...


These are what sometimes gives me problems later on. I backfill these holes and pack them down with the tractor tires as best I can, but many times they will settle over time which gives me low spots where the drill can't adequately bury the seed. This is why I was leveling out these plots this year.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

If we had rocks like you have - I think we'd be planting less food plots and - POSSIBLY - drinking more cold beer!!
Ours are sometimes just big enough to put dings and chips in our discs. Your leveling looks good.

 

[Brokenbear]

Well all good information from all... but just a bit of additional thoughts are worth mentioning ...

Not all weeds are bad ..many weeds are well used by deer, turkey and upland game birds ..Goldenrod,Sumac, Green Briar, Honey Suckle, Poke Weed, Ragweed to name a few but the deer actually naturally seek them out as their digestive system demands a variety of food stuff ...

A clean plot looking like a mono culture commercial field crop is not necessary ..it looks nice but actually it is not always a good return on investment of $$ or time nor required to be a Cracker Jack food plot ..

As plotters we are not growing a cash crop ..we are growing a field of diversity that deer for example are looking for both a smorgasbord meal as well as feeling comfortable with their surroundings ..so in my area the only thing I really get after is Cockerburr, Thistle (deer love Thistle but I do not), and Water Hemp ..and to handle the flare up of those I use a home made "wiping stick" shaped like a hockey stick made entirely out of 2" PVC that has a 12" wick rope (portion of the stick that is parallel to the ground) that draws liquid from the PVC that is the reservoir/handle/wiping device ..and all you do is wipe the wick over the tops of the plants with the wick portion which is drawing your mix of 4oz/gal Gly for the Cockerburr or Thistle and the same ratio mix of glufosinate-ammonium (which is often refered to as "Liberty" Link) for the Water Hemp as most Water Hemp nation wide has become RoundUp resistant

Every time you till the ground you will bring up new seed bank to reinvigorate weed growth

Do not let the weeds go to seed ...even if I have to tread on some growing plot plant life to mow the tops off the weeds.. I will not let the weed head out

Bear