Used Tractor Opinion

[Red]

I'm in the market for my first tractor. Only have about $5,000 to spend so it has to be an older model.
I have a whisper of a lead on a John Deere 401c with a FEL. Any thoughts for a tractor newbie? Any issues I should be worried about since this is an industrial model vs an Ag model? Looks like the specs say this tractor is 6,800 lbs. Seemingly pretty heavy. I do have some areas that can be wet. Should I worry about weight or no matter the weight, stay out until it's dry?
Any advice in general would be great. Thanks

 

[Jim Timber]

It might not have a 3pt hitch, and worse yet it could lack a PTO. Several industrial's I've looked at didn't have anything off the rear end because they were intended to be backhoe-loaders. They usually have great hydraulic systems though.

As MBC said, ground clearance is an issue - 9" is about average, or roughly what a pickup differential has.

I was looking at industrials because of my main need: loader work. The problem is they're not built for farm use, they're a dirt/gravel moving machine.

 

[Red]

Thanks for the feedback.
Maybe my first question should be how big so I be looking for? I had been thinking 50 hp or a touch bigger. We have about 35 acres tillable and rent out all but about 7 that goes into plots. We already have a 3 bottom plow, 12' disc and 5' mower so I would like to keep using those and not have to re-buy those. We have been using my uncles JD 720 but too much of a PITA to borrow it when I need it. I'd like it mainly for food plots as well as general puttering around. Being a first tractor, I see more puttering around than actual work in my future. Any excuse to drive it around and play in the dirt.

 

[West Branch]

What kind of disc is the 12'? Is it just smooth round wheels or toothed? If toothed and/or an aggressive angle I would think you need 75+ hp. Soil type would make a difference too. I guess if the JD720 handled it well you might be ok with a 55-60hp.

I like MBC's idea of a IH 706.

 

[Jim Timber]

You could loan it to me this spring and see if my 45hp pulls it as I plow under the grass the township insists on mowing which then lets the Canada thistle thrive and then gets me little notices about how I have to control the CT. :mad: So I decided to give them a big one-finger salute and keep it turned under for a year. They can bitch piss and moan about the mud instead. :D

 

[Riggsgwp->]

I have a jd 620 wide front with aftermarket 3 pt hitch that would be perfect for what you're describing. I pull a 3 bottom plow and 12' disc no problem and I also have 5' mower I use. After getting my JD 2840 I don't use the 620 much anymore and was considering selling it. Haven't fully committed to selling it yet but I have other projects in the works and a bobcat would be nice to have.

 

[Red]

The disc has smooth wheels. It pulled ok this year. Bogged down where the soil was a bit moist.

Riggsgwp, pm me what you are thinking for your 620. That is on the lower end of the size I was thinking but it could work. Do you have a loader on it?

 

[Riggsgwp->]

No loader on it but you could always add one although I don't think the hydraulics would handle one real well. Not sure on price but it would be under your 5 grand mark.

 

[wiscwhip]

That's actually a great deal if the tractor is in good shape! I'm a "red" tractor guy myself from way back(I love to drive my buddies 886 when we are putting up hay), but I have driven both JD and NH in the recent past. I even used a M-M for a few years food plotting back in the early 90's.

 

[j-bird]

Red - if you use a tractor already and it works well with the equipment you have - what size is a JD 720? I agree with sticking with ag tractors and stick with something that you can get parts for. I'm not going to debate red or green - all I know is that in my area green tractor dealers/service centers are all over the place. That was a major selling point to me when I bought the machine I use currently (way too small for your needs). You also want a heavy tractor - that weight helps transfer that hp and torque to the ground and handle the tillage equipment. Avoid wet areas period - I can tell you first hand - tractors don't float well! I have hit a spring twice now on my place that required a much larger machine to pull me out.

 

[Red]

What is your thoughts on Gas vs Diesel on an older piece of equipment? From what I've read, people seem to like the gas because you can wrench on them a bit yourself were you will have to have a diesel professionally serviced.

 

[tooln]

Wrenching on a Gas vs Diesel shouldn't make a difference for the average guy. As the average guy will change his oil & filters. Anyone who has above average skills the difference between the 2 really doesn't matter, at least IMO. As far as which is better a diesel is going to be your long life work horse. I'm going to use semi trucks as an example, their engines are thinking of getting rebuilt around a million miles, how many gas will go that far.

 

[j-bird]

If you have a choice I would go diesel. I'm no mechanic - but I do all my own fluid and filter changes and lube the machine as well. If it gets to a point where I need engine work - more than likely I will take it to someone anyway (gas or diesel). I'm not as far north as you guys are but I have not had an issue with my machine not starting due to cold either - no block heater and only a hand full of times needed the glow plug. Diesel is just a safer fuel to have around in my opinion as well. Wish it would come down in price like gas has.

 

[Jim Timber]

Starting in cold weather has as much to do with what fuel you're running as the diesel engine you're trying to run. #2 in summer and blended or straight #1 in winter = not going to gel on you. A lot of the truckers who have issues are running too heavy of fuel for the temps. #2 gives you better fuel economy, so that's why they want to run it despite the risks. Idling the engine keeps the fuel moving and prevents gelling, so that's why you'll often see diesels running all night when it's really cold. They don't burn fuel like a gas engine does at idle, so it's not a big expense to leave it running.

If you have 120v power at the shed, you could put a tank heater on the tractor and you'd never have a problem firing it up.

Diesels are much higher torque engines than gas. They don't make the horsepower because they can't rev as high, but for tractor work you need pulling power down low and diesel is your engine for that.

I agree that food plotting will never kill a tractor. They're built to run 40 hours a week at full load for years. How many plotters put 40 hours a season on the hobbs? That's a LOT of seat time on a tractor.

Wet sleeve diesel engines aren't like working on a gas 4 stroke, but they're no more difficult, and in fact they're easier to rebuild. When you score a cylinder in a gas engine and you lose compression, you need to take that block to a boring mill to be cut oversize and then get a piston that matches that new bore diameter = expensive, time consuming, requires R&R of whole engine. In a wet sleeve diesel you'd pull the head and oil pan, take the offending rod and piston out, replace that cylinder's liner, re-ring the piston, and put the engine back together. You can do it in a driveway with hand tools.

 

[tooln]

I haven't had any problems starting my diesel this winter. I've never had it running in sub zero temps but have at 3-5 above. The tractor sits in an unheated garage. I have a block heater just in case but haven't used it yet.

 

[Jim Timber]

Depending on where you buy fuel, you might not be able to get straight #2. #2 starts turning to snot around 15F from the paraffin solidifying. They could be blending it with additives to prevent that too. Been a long time since I was in the truck service industry, so practices may have changed. Used to be there'd be a 1 and 2 pump on the diesel stations. I haven't seen that at an auto pump lately, so you might be getting whatever blend they want to sell you now.

 

[foggy]

I've got a 2006 JD 3320 diesel. It's got a pre-heater instead of glow plugs. I've never had a starting issue in any kind of cold weather. I've started it when 20 below......and it popped right off. Lots of starts in the zero area. Newer diesels are pretty easy starting. Not sure if they all have pre-heaters these days......or if glow plugs are used on these smaller engines on some models?

 

[kabic]

My little JD 1023E with the yanmar engine just has glow plugs. Haven't had much issue starting it in the cold.

 

[Jim Timber]

Has a lot to do with your fuel, and fuel is better blended these days now that the EPA has their noses up everyone's anus.

Foggy, are you running regular pump diesel or are you getting off-road somewhere?

 

[foggy]

I just buy pump fuel from the Shell station down the road. No problems so far.