Trees...visual barrier...norway, white pine, white spruce question??

[Mike Castillo]

Hey Guys,

The number one priority on my property is creating a visual barrier to a 4 acre area that is the primary food plot location on my property. It is wide open and way too visual. The deer avoid it like the plague during daylight hours...and there is the constant threat of poaching, etc. My property is low and wet, with clay heavy clay soil.

Last spring I planted a few hundred Norway spruce. Most have survived and some have not so far. I know this is a multi year project as I only have so much time and money to dedicate to planting...so I am looking for some advice. 1) do you think I should continue to use Norway spruce exclusively? White pine grows well on my land, and I was considering some white spruce as well. Is it better just to use Norways for their fast growth and relative cost...or is diversity important? 2) What is the best way to protect the trees? For last years planting, I sprayed around them...but it can be labor intensive. I am wondering about cutting some landscape fabric and simply putting a 1 foot square piece over each seedling and staking it down?

I appreciate your guidance...

 

[Diesel5610]

Norways grow relatively fast and retain lower limbs which make them ideal for windbreaks and visual barriers. This is the main reason they are usually recommended and used. Variety is never a bad thing if you want to add other conifers. Weed control is up to you. Using landscape fabric and staking it down would certainly benefit the trees, not sure it is less work than spraying around the trees. I spray around mine once in late spring and call it good for the year. The trees are slow the first 2-3 years and then take off, hard to wait for them but worth it when they get there.

 

[j-bird]

White pine will work fine for the first 10 years or so, but as they mature and get bigger they drop their limbs and are not a great visual barrier. They also tend to not to handle lots of weight from snow and ice as they mature either. I would suggest planting a row or two of white pines to "kick-start" your screen project and then back those rows up with at least 2 rows of spruce of some sort that is best suited for your soil conditions. If you don't have concern for fruit trees Eastern Red Cedar can also grow fast as well. Just remember that the pine may be removed later so lay out your rows accordingly. I wouldn't be concerned about diversity in your screen unless you are concerned about disease. As for protecting your trees - I think you will have a bigger issue of protecting them from rubbing and browse than anything. That may be a far bigger issue for you, as pine in general seem to be targeted by deer. I have a row of cedar planted to screen a road backed up with a row of MG.....neither are very far along, but I figure in a few years I should be in pretty good shape. Good luck.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I would definitely plant multiple rows with different species - for both disease insurance and also since sometimes it's tough to tell exactly what will grow best on your specific property. Spruce make the best visual screens, but they grow pretty slow. I wouldn't be afraid to plant some white pines since they are already found on your land, but you may need to cage them to prevent browse damage so that may be expensive and time consuming. The fastest grower would be a cottonwood or hybrid poplar. I planted a row of them by my visual screens and they can grow 3-5 feet in a good year. They obviously don't help you out in the winter, but they will give you the fastest screen for the first few years and you can chop them down once the spruce take off. As far as tree prices go, it's hard to beat the prices through the state nursery. I don't know what state you live in, but I've had great luck with both the MN and WI DNR state nursery seedling sales. I've had great survival rate when I plant the trees on fields that were sprayed with round-up the prior year. Just plant them in the dead stubble and let nature take over. No post planting spraying, mowing or weed mats. I'm confident I averaged around a 80%+ survival rate with this.

I have a 6 row visual screen that is around a mile long that surrounds my fields and property boundary. My screen is 10 years old and was planted with white spruce, red pine, white pine, cottonwood/hybrid poplars and some random shrubs (crabapple, plums, ninebark, hawthorn, etc.). It is really starting to look great, but if I had to do it over again I would have planted more shrubs to improve my small game hunting.

 

[Weezy]

What Ben said plus speckled alder.
I completely screened off my plot in 3 years with a double staggered row of speckled alder spaced at 8 ft. Only maintenance was 4x4 black plastic. The bucks thrashed all them hard and it didnt phase them. Still waiting on elderberry,silky dogwood,norway spruce to grow up.

 

[ruskbuckss]

I would also suggest a variety of pine/spruce. I almost made the mistake of planting all blue spruce at home because they looked the best. My dad liked a more natural look so he wanted a bunch of different spruce and pines. A lot of our blue spruce now have some disease and are getting thinner and starting to die.Glad the others are there and doing good. My land up north I started with 250 scotch and 50 white spruce. The scotch are the fastest growing pine I have seen. They grow fast and wide and did a great job for a fast screen. They are not the strongest trees thou,sometimes heavy snow breaks the branches, and they are also starting to thin a little on the bottom. I have started planting Norways in any bear spots and in front with the spruce. I also transplanted a bunch a balsams from my land for the screen. They are nice looking trees if they get some sun,but will also do good in the shade. The scotch I planted are 12-15ft tall and my spruce are about 5t in 11 years. I've had a nice screen from them for about the last 4 years.

 

[bueller]

I would also suggest a variety of pine/spruce. I almost made the mistake of planting all blue spruce at home because they looked the best. My dad liked a more natural look so he wanted a bunch of different spruce and pines. A lot of our blue spruce now have some disease and are getting thinner and starting to die.Glad the others are there and doing good. My land up north I started with 250 scotch and 50 white spruce. The scotch are the fastest growing pine I have seen. They grow fast and wide and did a great job for a fast screen. They are not the strongest trees thou,sometimes heavy snow breaks the branches, and they are also starting to thin a little on the bottom. I have started planting Norways in any bear spots and in front with the spruce. I also transplanted a bunch a balsams from my land for the screen. They are nice looking trees if they get some sun,but will also do good in the shade. The scotch I planted are 12-15ft tall and my spruce are about 5t in 11 years. I've had a nice screen from them for about the last 4 years.

Where are the blue spruce with the disease issues planted?

Scotch pines faster than white and red pines in your area?

 

[H20fwler]

I am working on a 500 yard long road screen myself in heavy loamy clay with a few wetter spots like you. I have planted white pine/Norway spruce/blue spruce and white cedar. I started with 2'-4' trees some potted but mostly bare rooted, deer rub the heck out of the spruce and rabbits and deer brows the white pines. I planted mine in two staggered rows about 8-10 feet apart.
To help stop the rubbing I put two electric fence posts one either side of the trees right up close and that has seemed to help, the posts are cheap I buy mine at TSC for around $1.25 each. The best luck I've had in wetter clay spots is white cedar it doesn't seem to mind a little standing water in spring. I have lost trees to wildlife and weather wet and dry and just keep replanting knowing that sooner or later I'll get ahead of the damage and have a sweet wall of green road screen.

 

[Weed Wacker]

White pine will work fine for the first 10 years or so, but as they mature and get bigger they drop their limbs and are not a great visual barrier. They also tend to not to handle lots of weight from snow and ice as they mature either. I would suggest planting a row or two of white pines to "kick-start" your screen project and then back those rows up with at least 2 rows of spruce of some sort that is best suited for your soil conditions. If you don't have concern for fruit trees Eastern Red Cedar can also grow fast as well. Just remember that the pine may be removed later so lay out your rows accordingly. I wouldn't be concerned about diversity in your screen unless you are concerned about disease. As for protecting your trees - I think you will have a bigger issue of protecting them from rubbing and browse than anything. That may be a far bigger issue for you, as pine in general seem to be targeted by deer. I have a row of cedar planted to screen a road backed up with a row of MG.....neither are very far along, but I figure in a few years I should be in pretty good shape. Good luck.

 

[Weed Wacker]

J-bird, what do you mean by, If you don't have concern for fruit trees Eastern Red can grow fast?? I am planting red ceader for bedding and also fruit trees for food. Is there a disease or something that passes from one to the other or something? I just don't want to waist my time and money.

 

[Weezy]

Some variety of fruit trees are susceptible to Cedar apple rust.

 

[Bill]

Be careful what is used for landscape fabric with pines. Not sure about perforated fabric but plastic sheets will kill them. They need air.

If by wet you mean standing water this won't work but if not Miscanthus Giganthus grass is the fastest growing screen you can plant. Two rows before your trees and you will have a screen in 3 years.

 

[ruskbuckss]

Where are the blue spruce with the disease issues planted?

Scotch pines faster than white and red pines in your area?

The blue spruce are planted at my house in SE WI.I believe it is cytospora canker. The bottom branches start to die and turn brown. Then it works itself towards the top and the tree just gets thinner and thinner. Yes the scotch pines grow way faster than the red pines by me. I planted 50 red pines at the same time farther back along my back foodplot. I had trouble with the deer browsing both the scotch and reds, but my tallest red is about 7ft.The scotch are more of a squatty round tree, a lot more girth than the spruce,reds, or norways.

 

[ruskbuckss]

Not the best picture but here is a picture of the scotch pine screen. The light green plants are Egyptian wheat about 3-4 ft tall

The blue spruce are planted at my house in SE WI.I believe it is cytospora canker. The bottom branches start to die and turn brown. Then it works itself towards the top and the tree just gets thinner and thinner. Yes the scotch pines grow way faster than the red pines by me. I planted 50 red pines at the same time farther back along my back foodplot. I had trouble with the deer browsing both the scotch and reds, but my tallest red is about 7ft.The scotch are more of a squatty round tree, a lot more girth than the spruce,reds, or norways.

Here is a pic of the scotch pine screen at 9-10 yrs old.

 

[j-bird]

J-bird, what do you mean by, If you don't have concern for fruit trees Eastern Red can grow fast?? I am planting red ceader for bedding and also fruit trees for food. Is there a disease or something that passes from one to the other or something? I just don't want to waist my time and money.

Yes - Cedar can carry cedar apple rust which can affect certain fruit trees (some varieties more than others)....I am not an expert on the matter, but I do know this condition exists so do some homework and make sure you are not creating a less than favorable situation on your property.

 

[chickenlittle]

Cedar rusts or juniper rusts: cedar apple rust (CAR), Cedar Quince Rust, Cedar Hawthorn Rust. The fungus infects and overwinters on cedars and junipers forming orange galls. Then in the summer it can infect the leaves or fruit of pome fruits - apple, pear, hawthorn, serviceberry, quince. It does not overwinter on northern white cedar/arborvitae since that isn't a juniper. For highly susceptible fruit trees, it can destroy the fruit and defoliate the tree. Some might only get mild spotting on the leaves and fruit just fine. Also some fruit trees might not be affected by one of the rusts but susceptible to one of the other kinds.

Red cedars don't occur on our property but I had ordered some red cedar about the same time I started planning my fruit plantings. Once I learned about CAR, I cancelled the red cedar order and went with other evergreens for thermal cover. But if you have red cedars, you can choose your fruit trees to minimize possible impact of CAR. Even with susceptible apple varieties like Goldrush, some folks report seeing some spots on the leaves but still get plenty of fruit and the trees remain healthy otherwise.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

A Pa. forester told me 22+ years ago that if we were planting apples and crabs not to plant, pull out, or kill any red cedars because of the cedar-apple rust fungus. I had planted a few for cover and yanked them out right away. None were native to our camp area or any around for miles. No problems with CAR for us.

If I were planting a road screen, I'd plant the spruce and other things such as Washington hawthorn, white cedar (arborvitae - and not a true cedar or juniper - no problem as far as CAR ) on the sunny side of the mixed rows of the screen. Any pines will grow faster than the other plants and will shade them out if they are planted on the sunny side of those rows. Like others have said above, pines will eventually lose their lower limbs and can easily be seen through. ( My camp had this problem until I planted a double row of spruce - on the sunny side - to fill in the now-opening pines ). I like the idea of diversity, much like others have said. Hawthorns will provide tons of red berries for birds, turkeys, & grouse, as well as make great nesting sites for various birds. Hawthorn seedlings are cheap from state nurseries or county agency sales, and they'll grow about 2 ft. or more per year if planted in sun and given some 10-10-10 fertilizer. I've planted dozens of them at my camp.

I have no knowledge of MG, but guys on here love it and have it - so they know it's benefits.

 

[Orlando]

I planted a 1/4 mile of cedars 6 years ago. Will have a nice screen in another couple of years. Until then I keep planting a Pheasants Forever Blizzard buster mix for a screen. Works good. But, our soil is probably a little different.

 

[Tap]

I'll echo what the others are saying about planting a variety of species to guard against disease loss.
Yes, take into consideration the current diseases that threaten tree species, but also consider what may come in the future.
It seems like pests and diseases are coming at us faster and faster. What appears to be a stable, healthy species now may be victims of the next blight in just a few years. Blue Spruce and Hemlock are prime examples. They were healthy species around here a few years ago and now they are severely threatened. Same with ash.

I think that too many of us are very short-sighted when it comes to tree planting. I'm as guilty as anyone. I look at species I've planted years ago or their locations that I chose and I wonder what the heck I was thinking at the time.
And don't be afraid to remove trees to avoid crowding. Yeah, in the early years, we need them closer together to create the screen or cover, but as they mature they need thinned or you will have shading leading to lower branch loss. I used to be reluctant to remove a beautiful, healthy tree but I've come to realize that it was a mistake. When they start crowding each other, you'll lose those low branches that created the screen which was the reason you planted them in the 1st place.

And mono cultures are risky. It takes years to develop tree cover, mast, or whatever the reason for the species. One stinking' blight and we can lose it all in a couple years, just when the tree is starting to do what we wanted it for. Plant a variety.

 

[mtholton]

I would definitely plant multiple rows with different species - for both disease insurance and also since sometimes it's tough to tell exactly what will grow best on your specific property. Spruce make the best visual screens, but they grow pretty slow. I wouldn't be afraid to plant some white pines since they are already found on your land, but you may need to cage them to prevent browse damage so that may be expensive and time consuming. The fastest grower would be a cottonwood or hybrid poplar. I planted a row of them by my visual screens and they can grow 3-5 feet in a good year. They obviously don't help you out in the winter, but they will give you the fastest screen for the first few years and you can chop them down once the spruce take off. As far as tree prices go, it's hard to beat the prices through the state nursery. I don't know what state you live in, but I've had great luck with both the MN and WI DNR state nursery seedling sales. I've had great survival rate when I plant the trees on fields that were sprayed with round-up the prior year. Just plant them in the dead stubble and let nature take over. No post planting spraying, mowing or weed mats. I'm confident I averaged around a 80%+ survival rate with this.

I have a 6 row visual screen that is around a mile long that surrounds my fields and property boundary. My screen is 10 years old and was planted with white spruce, red pine, white pine, cottonwood/hybrid poplars and some random shrubs (crabapple, plums, ninebark, hawthorn, etc.). It is really starting to look great, but if I had to do it over again I would have planted more shrubs to improve my small game hunting.

Any chance you have a pic of this? Ordered 1000 White Spruce from the WI DNR to put my first round in this spring.