Timber Harvest Advice

[Prelude8626]

All, Im in the process of getting things ready for out first timber harvest. What I'm looking for is what have people done in the past (or would do) for requirements when having timber cut. For example did you make the timber cutters fixed the roads, clean up tree tops, etc.

Thanks so much

 

[Boll Weevil]

A few thoughts:
1) Get contract provisions in writing, engage a forester, and get a cruise done so you know what your inventory looks like.
2) Make clear your expectations for placement and repair of roads, creek/ditch crossings, waterbars/turnouts, etc.
3) Not sure what kind of timber you've got but for pine, slash redistribution from the decks back into the residual stand is important.
4) If you have multiple products (pulpwood, chip n saw, sawtimber, veneer, poles etc) the knuckleboom operator is the most important man on the job. Properly sorted wood maximizes revenue and working with your forester, merchandising/marketing is key.
5) If it's a thinning job consider penalties for damaging the residual stand through careless felling, skidding.

Good luck with your harvest!

 

[yoderjac]

I found a forester well worth the cost.

In addition to the normal road repair and such, we identified locations with the forester that would be suitable for logging decks and food plots. We required the loggers to use those locations, remove and save the top soil, and then relieve the compression and redistribute the top soil on the deck and seed them when they were done. We banned the use of fescue and required the re-seeding to be done with WR.

Thanks,

jack

 

[j-bird]

#1 - look on this site and Deer Hunter Forum (start with a recent thread called "what the hell have I done" and see what you can learn from the experience of others. As you are about to enter a roller-coaster of a ride. If you have never done this before...when you see the "aftermath" before the clean up....your going to think, "What the #$%^ have I done!"

#2 - if it ain't in writing it has no chance of happening!

What sort of cut are you looking at? Is it pine or hardwoods? Is it for pulp or saw timber? Is it a clear cut, based on tree size, or a selective cut?

You most certainly need to document that you want the logging trails leveled, any ditches and the like culvert piped, and anything like that. They can also clear you a plot, dig a water hole or put the tops into a specific location if you want. Now, that all doesn't come for free, but since they will have the equipment on site now is the time to do that sort of work. They can also remove trees that need to go even if they don;t want to take them to the mill.

If you are not familiar with your trees and the like or need/want someone to keep an eye on things if you can not...hire a forester. I did not, but my situation was very different... I was VERY involved in mine. I was along when we marked and inventoried over 700 trees. I live on the property so I checked on progress daily. I also had a family connection with the loggers so my exposure to being screwed was limited. We marked and identified skidder trails and loading decks and areas I wanted them to stay away from and which areas I wanted culverts added and all that sort of stuff.

 

[bwoods11]

I asked the logger to make decent access roads in the process of cutting some walnut. Got paid and he opened up a nice road system on my farm in IA...win-win

 

[Boll Weevil]

...exposure to being screwed...

J-bird brings up a true point and not to knock all loggers because there's some good ones out there but the profession definitely has the reputation of dishonesty. I've asked foresters even loggers themselves why the perception of dishonesty and their reply, "Because the reputation has been earned over time."

In terms of volume, species, quality, and market value most landowners have absolutely no idea what's growing on their property. Big timber harvests might only happen 1, 2, 3 times in a given landowner's lifetime possibly with huge cash flow implications. Engage a forester to keep from getting...as J-bird so eloquently put it...screwed.

 

[yoderjac]

Keep in mind that the more restriction and requirements you put on the timber sale, the fewer folk that will bid on the timber and the lower the price may be. Timber management is a balance between timber value and wildlife value. Many foresters are timber value focused so interview several and find out who will listen and understand your wildlife concerns. We tried to balance between the two but we put the thumb on the scale regarding wildlife value.

Our first step was to work with the free professionals. Our state forester was free and provided some good general advise. Because I bought from a timber company that did not spray because they knew they were going to sell, he got us in a cost sharing program with the state for aerial spraying. Next, we used a wildlife biologist from our game department. He was free as well and came out and made recommendations regarding habitat improvement. Next we talked to USDA and got into one of their programs that paid for firebreak installation, herbicide spraying in some clear-cuts, and controlled burns. They also sent out an NRCS wildlife biologist who made recommendations regarding the program.

Only after using these resources did we start interviewing private foresters. They all charged between 8% and 10% of the timber sale. We found one we liked that did not try to talk us out of our wildlife objectives. He drafted a basic contract and we did a back-and-forth until it contained all the non-standard things we wanted like I listed in my previous post on this thread. He helped advise us on how bidders would react to our restrictions. He then marked and showed the timber and took bids. He wrote a Forest Stewardship Plan for us and oversaw the logging operation when it took place.

In general, we were pretty happy with everything.

Thanks,

jack

 

[Baker]

I echo everything said above. I thin about 100 acres every year for the past few decades. I have used a forester that was focused timber only and he lasted one year. After that I found one that understood my balance between forestry and wildlife goals. He has been on my property for nearly 10 years now, knows my property extremely well, knows my goals extremely well, and I cheerfully pay him 10% of total value of each years harvest. Just got my new forestry plan from him that goes till 2029 showing each years annual plan. Timber mgt. is a long term project.

Have been using same logger now for several years and he is well trained also. Plus he brings a dozer and road grader in to improve road system and do small projects that have nothing to do with logging. But we have created a great relationship that is a win win. Doesn't hurt that I let he and his daughter take a deer each year. The mutual trust between us all is invaluable cause screw ups last a long time.

Good luck

 

[TreeDaddy]

I echo everything said above. I thin about 100 acres every year for the past few decades. I have used a forester that was focused timber only and he lasted one year. After that I found one that understood my balance between forestry and wildlife goals. He has been on my property for nearly 10 years now, knows my property extremely well, knows my goals extremely well, and I cheerfully pay him 10% of total value of each years harvest. Just got my new forestry plan from him that goes till 2029 showing each years annual plan. Timber mgt. is a long term project.

Have been using same logger now for several years and he is well trained also. Plus he brings a dozer and road grader in to improve road system and do small projects that have nothing to do with logging. But we have created a great relationship that is a win win. Doesn't hurt that I let he and his daughter take a deer each year. The mutual trust between us all is invaluable cause screw ups last a long time.

Good luck

Baker,

Is your forester in La.?

Im looking for one like you describe in east texas?

bill

 

[Baker]

Yes, La. I can ask him if any interest in E Tx. I think he is very good. He lives in South La

 

[Prelude8626]

We do have a forester who was recommended. My concern is that his plan doesn’t give us any definitive direction, just what the stand is and should conditions. We are limiting them to a 40 acre block of the 150 total acreage until we have a better relationship and that built. I’ve never done this, so I don’t know what to ask for when it comes to the loggers and things such as clean up after. We are really just looking for a select cut to keep the forest healthy and growing (not looking for a clear cut, except to expand a few plots).

 

[Boll Weevil]

We are really just looking for a select cut to keep the forest healthy and growing (not looking for a clear cut, except to expand a few plots).

With a "select cut" (in quotes for a reason because it likely means very different things to a forester, landowner, and logger) be careful or you could end up with a high graded residual stand of junk. It's not hard at at all to thin and leave a stand GROWING but all you really have is a poor form, junk species, low value crappy stand of timber.

A lot depends on who's doing the "selecting." A logger left to pick and choose might only select the highest present value trees and leave a bunch of twisted, forked, junk wood only a pulp or chip mill MIGHT take somewhere down the road.

 

[Prelude8626]

The forester has been told we don’t want to high grade and I will be joining him on the marking process of the trees.

 

[Lee Haakenson]

The logger i worked with basically asked to mark what i wanted to save. I switched it up and marked every tree to cut and then missed some. Should have just marked the saved trees. Everythig went well except about 20% of the save trees had some broken limbs or small scrapes on the bark. I marked an aerial map of where i wanted skid roads and they in no way followed the map very well. The main roads i marked on the trees were followed well. Moral of the story, mark all skidder roads unless you want them to bull doze thru your young oak planting...and during prime oak wilt time

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[j-bird]

Being with them when they mark the trees is best if you can and you are willing to call BS. Know your tree types but be willing to understand that even a nice crop tree may need to come down if it is damaged or the like. This also prevents them from walking past trees they don't want...but you want gone! I had some "undersized" cherry cut because it was starting to go bad at the base. it was cut it now and make a few $ or loose it to a storm and be screwed. Walking the trees also gives you a real good chance to talk and see about access and the like as well.

 

[CoshoctonOH]

Your idea of only letting them cut 40 acres is a good one. I bought a property 5 years ago, all the trees looked beautiful, fast forward to the next year and the emerald ash borer showed it’s face. I call a few loggers they showed up, walked the woods with me. All the large outfits wanted to cut more than the ash trees. I told them nope. I found a small scale guy that would do it. He left the tops, I cut those into firewood. Did everything I wanted, and fixed all ruts. Fast forward to this year. I now know how the deer use my property, and understand how my property fits into the surrounding land-guess who got the big job? It wasn’t the big outfits that wanted it. I walked the woods with him, marked don’t cut trees. Let him know where I wanted the roads and where to push tops. Most I just wanted left where they fell. Testing the waters with the logger is a good idea, it would also help if he could give you some references, preferably ones that are like minded (hunters).

 

[Buckly]

I didn’t see mentioned above but, my forestry consultant marked all roadways with ribbon and also made a detailed map of each area to be cut. We also required a bond from each company for road repair and stated a price penalty for cutting any tree that wasn’t marked. These requirements eliminate most of the fly by nighters and is well worth it in my opinion. A good forestry consultant will get you a good price for what you have and also offering some protections. Beware the loggers that pull you aside and offer cash to deviate from the plan without notifying the consultant.