Thinking of a new orchard

[WTNUT]

I am thinking of planting a new orchard this fall. My current allotment of trees; approximately 100, are all M-111 and B-118 rootstock and planted more for wildlife. I would like to plant a trellis orchard but know very little about it. I will start to research on line, but for those of you with one I welcome any advise you have learned through trial and error. What is the most common rootstock? Bud 9 perhaps? I have plenty of room, but my friend who recently bought an orchard says they take far less space than I realize. I am thinking of starting with 100 trees and can not imagine every having more than 300.

 

[aerospacefarmer]

If you want it for trellis and for fruit production go with newer rootstocks like G.11 or G.41 you can plant these 5 to 7 feet apart. Go small early not big I went big early and regret it. Now all my grafts are on G.11 or 41 mm.111 and b 118 don't need trellis they support themselves

 

[WTNUT]

I don't want any more 111 or 118. What do you mean by go small? Smaller rootstock? What did go with that you regret?

 

[chickenlittle]

Paul is recommending you plant dwarf rootstock that are Bud 9 size from the improved Cornell Geneva releases. G11 and G41 are dwarf rootstocks that give you Bud 9 size but better disease resistances. G16 is also in that size range but susceptible to virus from scionwood, ok if you are buying from a good nursery but not if you are grafting yourself.

Look at the cornell chart on this page.

http://shop.cumminsnursery.com/shop/rootstocks

 

[aerospacefarmer]

Paul is recommending you plant dwarf rootstock that are Bud 9 size from the improved Cornell Geneva releases. G11 and G41 are dwarf rootstocks that give you Bud 9 size but better disease resistances. G16 is also in that size range but susceptible to virus from scionwood, ok if you are buying from a good nursery but not if you are grafting yourself.

Look at the cornell chart on this page.

http://shop.cumminsnursery.com/shop/rootstocks

Yes indeed. Regret I went b118 and mm111 to start with

 

[chickenlittle]

For a high density planting like you are considering, you can try matching vigor of the scion to the rootstock. A vigorous scion on G11 might be the same size a a weak scion on a slightly larger rootstock like G935, G222, G202. A very weak scion on G11 might be too small and unproductive. You probably won't know for vigor for everything you want to plant. In that case, probably better to go with the slightly larger rootstock and prune to limit size if needed.

Are you planning to add irrigation?

 

[WTNUT]

Aero did you start your plantings for wildlife or for Apple production? If the latter, I can see why you regret 111 and 118. They are a lot of work, and the added height just makes it worse!!!!

 

[WTNUT]

More questions: In a new orchard would you all go with maybe 3 or 4 varieties or would you really mix it up and have lots of varieties. What varieties would you go with. I wish I had thought of this earlier it would really be neat to take rootstock and graft on scions from members and friends to start your orchard. Some of my favorite trees are ones where I know members here and from QDMA provided me the scion wood!

 

[chickenlittle]

The variety question really depends on what you want this orchard for. It is easier to care for blocks of 25 or 50 trees of the same variety. But that assumes you want that many apples from those varieties and have a use for them when they ripen.

I think most of us would mix it up.

 

[buckvelvet]

Yes indeed. Regret I went b118 and mm111 to start with

Regretting B118 is like a sin on these habitat forums. Repent for the kingdom is at hand...

 

[aerospacefarmer]

Regretting B118 is like a sin on these habitat forums. Repent for the kingdom is at hand...

Deer eat apples fro dwarf trees too lol

 

[buckvelvet]

Deer eat apples fro dwarf trees too lol

I don't even know who you are anymore.....:)

I assume your doing dwarf for the ease of you picking yourself.

 

[aerospacefarmer]

I don't even know who you are anymore.....:)

I assume your doing dwarf for the ease of you picking yourself.

Fruit will bear faster easier to spray and prune etc etc

 

[buckvelvet]

So full dwarf trees don't support themselves (correct?) so you have to do more work in trellis or some other type of system to make it work. Doesn't that offset the other advantages? I'm spit balling here....

 

[chickenlittle]

If you enjoy all the work involved in growing and pampering apple trees, a dwarf orchard has appeal. For a low maintenance habitat tree, B118 or MM111 are much better choices.

 

[aerospacefarmer]

If you enjoy all the work involved in growing and pampering apple trees, a dwarf orchard has appeal. For a low maintenance habitat tree, B118 or MM111 are much better choices.

I find just the opposite as I also spray my wildlife trees

 

[aerospacefarmer]

So full dwarf trees don't support themselves (correct?) so you have to do more work in trellis or some other type of system to make it work. Doesn't that offset the other advantages? I'm spit balling here....

I don't trellis just stake and cage

 

[chickenlittle]

If you are going to spray it every year for the life of the tree (or the sprayer operator which could be shorter), I would not call that low maintenance.

If that is the plan, however, you can easily trellis and cage a row of dwarf trees. I think the main concern becomes providing water which might be necessary for survival in drought conditions.

 

[aerospacefarmer]

I

If you are going to spray it every year for the life of the tree (or the sprayer operator which could be shorter), I would not call that low maintenance.

If that is the plan, however, you can easily trellis and cage a row of dwarf trees. I think the main concern becomes providing water which might be necessary for survival in drought conditions.

will spray my b118 and m111's for their life so for me it's easier to spray more trees e same area and pruning is easier

 

[buckvelvet]

I like apples, all shapes, flavors, & sizes. Ya'll are classy in my book!