The Woods ... mistakes I'v made

[OakSeeds]

2 arborists have told me the rate should be higher for larger trees; I treat a 47" dbh green ash with a 2.5% solution of Dominion. One of the benefits of buying Dominion Imadicloprid (21%), beyond the cheaper price, is you can vary the solution rate to fit the tree / shrub. Also, for small oaks / chestnut trees with thin bark, it would be very easy - and effective - to use a small tank sprayer to complete a bark drench application (spray the trunk of the tree from 4.5' -dbh down to the ground. Uptake might be faster than a soil drench. Either a soil drench or bark drench would work ... eliminating any issue with Japanese beetles. Don't know if it would help with gall wasps on small oaks.

 

[OakSeeds]

Now that the intense heat & humidity of July is upon us, an adequate supply of water is ceritical for sustaining growth for newly, or recently, planted trees. I use water pipes as a mechanism to be highly efficient/effective in providing adequate water to a large number of trees. If I attempt to provide 5-6 gallons of water to the base of a tree with hard, dry ground, even with a soil levee around the tree, it will usually be a painstakenly slow task (with the ever present danger of substantial runoff (if I hurry). I plant a 36-40 inch length of 3 or 4 inch PVC (easy to beg scrap at construction sites) about 12-16 inches away from the tree. The pipe has 12-15 relatively small holes drilled vertically in the last 8-12 inches of the pipe (2-inch wide strip). I PLANT this pipe (don't pound it into the ground since it would fill with soil to ground level) with a 15-degree angle (from bottom to top) pointed away from the tree. I make a soil levee around the base of the tree and pipe and backfill the side of the pipe opposite the tree 2-3 inches higher than the front side of the pipe. This system will deliver water directly to the root zone of the tree and when the RZ becomes saturated, water will begin to flow upward out of the holes in the pipe and run onto the area at the base of the tree within the soil levee. Attached are photos of water pipes showing the configuration of holes and photos showing water pipes on 12 mo old chestnut trees. Each of these trees had 3 & 1/2 plastic cat-litter containers of water (around 10 gallons) poured down the pipe with virtually no water loss. These trees will grow robustly for the following 2-3 weeks without additional water. Hope this system might be useful to others.






Also, in order to prevent air in the pipe from drying the soil immediately adjacent to the discharge holes in the WP, I tear up small pieces of straw (enough to fill 8-10 inches of the pipe ... it will compress) and drop it down the pipe. It'll float up when water is poured down the pipe and fall back into place as the water recedes. This step isn't necessary but I like the complete package! :-)
Good luck my friends.

 

[Rubee]

Great tip! How deep do you plant the pipe?

 

[OakSeeds]

Great tip! How deep do you plant the pipe?

Deep enough that you have 3+ inches of soil above the hole in the pipe that is the hole highest (top) from the bottom of the pipe. 4 or more inches is even better. Good luck my friend.

 

[Rubee]

Thanks Oak. I'll use your idea. Sounds good.

 

[OakSeeds]

A very bad experience ... something I had not seen before. I direct seeded a group/grove of 7 Dunstan chestnuts (chestnuts from Pike Ridge) 5 & 1/2 years ago; several sported catkins last year but no burs. This year 4 trees have burs and the central leaders have been broken off in 2 of the trees and secondary limbs have been broken off in all 4 of the trees. Since we have not had any storms with wind - hardly had any rainfall - during the past 5 weeks, I am somewhat at a loss to determine the cause of the damage. I have developed a theory ... I think it may be a bug problem. This year starting in late June, lots of Japanese beetles appeared on the scene - the property has soybeans (JB favorite food) on 3 sides with lots in the area. Although I sprayed twice, the bugs just kept coming ... eating both chestnuts and oaks with heavy damage on new growth (especially the chestnuts). I noticed the first broken central leader around the middle of July and today - inspection of these 7 trees resulted in the damage described above. I'm wondering if some animal (e.g., coons or possums) is climbing the trees to eat beetles? (I know they will dig up your yard for the grubs) While the trees are caged for deer, I ride cages up 18" on t-posts (with short trunk guards) so it would be easy access for any animal that can climb. What I don't know .... would they eat the bugs as food or for the moisture content? Anybody got any ideas? I'll post photos tomorrow night.

The raccoon is entirely omnivorous; it will literally eat almost anything it can get its paws on.

 

[Bill]

I wouldnt be surprised. Time for a few traps to see. box trap some cat food.

 

[OakSeeds]

You are correct Mr. Bill; 4 traps were baited and set late this afternoon.
Nice cluster of burs on the end of this limb (was a leader)
2nd photo shows the other end of limb with the cluster of burs '''' 1st time tree ever made chestnuts
additional photos show damage on other trees

Found another chestnut tree with severe damage this afternoon; however, one tree in the same group had a cage flush with the ground and had burs with no damage to limbs. All my chestnut cages in the future shall be flush with the ground ... I elevated them 18-20" in the past to try to provide better protection by making 4.5" wire work like 6" wire. Found out the drawbacks the hard way. Don't make my mistake if you have raccoons and Japanese beetles in your area.
You can see the severe damage to leaves on ends of limbs in photo #1 .... since the entire leaf structure is gone, it is likely something ate/stripped the leaves.
Beetles usually just eat the portion of the leaves between the structure / veins of the leaf

 

[rocksnstumps]

I have similar problems but with oaks and acorns. I think I have a 150# coon though since found one tree today bent over that was about 3" dbh. All of them in one area got the same treatment, darn hooligans.

One of the not so great things about trees that start with nut production at an early age is they are not a very big or strong tree. Mr B is starting to be a PIA since he started making drive bys last year. Last summer was several crab apples that got trashed and for some reason a 15 ft spruce tree was broke in half, lost one of the crabs over the winter. Now he's after the burr oaks that grow slow but put out acorns at an early age. The reds and whites planted about the same time are faster growers with 4-6" dia trunks now while the burrs are in the 1-1/2" to 3" range. Recaged a bunch of them today and tried to rope them better but will see.

These acorns were still pretty green, guess he lacks patience or wants to beat all the other critters....cause he can. Grrrr

 

[OakSeeds]

Another aspect of "water pipes" is the ability to get fertilizer - essentially immediately - to the root zone. I use Schultz (Azalea & other acid loving plants) or Ultra Green (Azalea & other acid loving plants) instead of Miracle Grow because they are much less expensive and have advantages .... Schultz is 32-10-10 (much higher than others (use less for same effect) and Ultra Green has 3X as much iron (VIP for Oaks / Chestnuts). I mix 1 TBLS of each in a gallon of H20 and pour 5 OZ in the water pipe of each tree - followed immediately by 3 gals of water -per feeding. Attached are photos of the plant foods I use and a photo of a 105-inch Col WO that jumped about 33" this year. The tree is about 3 yrs old.





I posted this now because many garden centers and big box stores often place seasonal items like these on sale late in the summer.

 

[OakSeeds]

Started another experiment today. Harvested first chestnuts off 5-tree grove that was direct seeded 5-6 years ago. Small nuts in photo are result of lack of pollination. 3 nice dark chestnuts came from bur (dark brown and starting to open); however, the other 6 represent 3 burs off same tree that were still quite green (think they will be mature enough to germinate next spring if stratified over winter). I have picked acorns off white oak trees that were half green in color; they turned brown and produced trees the next spring ... testing to see if chestnuts do the same thing.

 

[Rubee]

That's awesome Oakseeds. 5 or 6 years from seed to producing nuts is faster then I thought they would grow. Are they Chinese chestnuts? Did you direct seed them in the fall or spring? What are the heighth and caliper of those trees? Can you post pictures of them? Where are you planting them? I haven't had any luck with them in zone 4/5 of northern Michigan but want to try to start some again.
Thanks
Rubee

 

[OakSeeds]

Update .... in less than 24 hours the chestnuts (from trees grown from Dunstan offspring from Pike County) turned substantially darker. I believe my assumption that they were mature - and would turn brown and seal the scar - was correct. I'll keep these separate from other chestnuts and check their germination next spring. If the germination is good; folks who can't check their trees on a frequent basis would be safe to harvest chestnuts (when partially green) right off the tree after several burs on a ctree have turned brown and begun to open. See attached photo. Rubee ... I'll get photos next week and answer you questions. They were direct seeded Dunstan offspring.



After 48 hours ......

 

[OakSeeds]

Attached are 2 photos of a Kindrid Spirit columnar WO displaying it's growth for summer 2018. the first photo shows the tree shortly after fully leafing out in early summer; the second photo was taken today (10 14 2018) revealing the substantial growth in height and girth (it was fertilized once in late May .... but continues to shoot new green leaves). It is now close to 12' tall.

 

[OakSeeds]

Rubee .... virtually all trees (especially oaks and chestnuts) need 5 things in order to achieve accelerated growth .... 1 sunlight, 2 water, 3 nutrients, 4 reduced competition and 5 protection. You can't turn the sun on or off; you can only plant trees in locations where they will enjoy full sun. You can rely on nature to provide sufficient water; however, just as your grass goes dormant in hot periods with little rainfall, you tree will essentially suspend growing (supplemental water for 1-3 yr old trees is one of the best ways to boost growth).
Nutrients (NPK and especially micro nutrients and IRON) will boost grow rates (why do you fertilizer your garden). Competition can really retard tree growth since the root zone for most grasses/weeds is in the top 6' of the soil (grabs water and nutrients before they reach 12-18' where most fibrorous oak/chestnut "pick-up" roots are located. Using leaves for mulch is great for eliminating competition (grass/weeds won't conme through 6" and there is an ancillary benefit ... it often keeps the soil temperature above 40-degrees (crucial for root development even though it may be Nov/Dec.). Finally, protection against rodents, rabbits and deer avoids rubs, girdling and browse problems. Notice how dark the col WO tree in the photo immediately above; results from the relatively high iron available in the Schultz product pictured above. This tree is about 12 foot in less than 4.5 yrs. Attached arte the chestnuts tree pictures you requested. Hope you enjoy ... and please try growing them again.

 

[Rubee]

Thank you Oakseeds for the response and photos. Trees look healthy and your growing system sounds efficient. I’ll try them again.

 

[DLH]

Do you ever top dress with those fertilizers? If so how much do you apply and once in the spring or multiple times?

 

[Shedder]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/307577116010963/permalink/1576281999140462/

RE: fastigiate oaks

"Quercus macrocarpa (bur oak)
This bur oak is quite fastigiate (Middlesex County, Ontario)."

It would be interesting if it can be cloned.

This popped up this week.

 

[OakSeeds]

Do you ever top dress with those fertilizers? If so how much do you apply and once in the spring or multiple times?

Post #70 above describes my mix rate for Schultz (32-10-10) and UltraGreen .... you can easily feed 20-24 trees using 1 heaping tablespoon of each in a gallon of H20. Almost every tree I plant has a water/fertilizer tube or is planted inside a black landscape pot with the bottom cut out; both of these methods ensure the liquid fertilizer mixture will be directed right into the young tree's developing root zone. When you say "top dress," these products are not granular (they are fine granules disolved in water) so I water-them-in when I apply this liquid fertilizer. So no, I don't top dress in the traditional sense. My first shot of fertilizer is as soon as the frost is out of the ground (usually early to mid March); sometimes a second shot is delivered around the first week of June. Attached are photos of some chestnut trees that are 2-3 yrs old. Let me know if I can be of help.
P.S. Look closely and you'll see the black plastic pot under each of the trees.

 

[TreeDaddy]

The use of old fencing brings a smile......i re cycle my "stuff' as well

i assume the black pots are for directing the roots?

bill