The Woods ... mistakes I'v made

[OakSeeds]

Tree Daddy and Teeder ... thanks mucho for your kind words; however, I am only one of LOTS of folks posting on this site who are very generous with their knowledge and resources.
I assure you I have made plenty of mistakes and engaged in habitat practices that were not optimal for the goals I had in mine. Experience is a wonderful teacher ... sometimes a little harsh but still a great teacher. The key is to learn from your own and others experiences ... especially mistakes.

 

[OakSeeds]

Over time, there has been a lot of discussion about the value of oak trees and their role in deer harvest and maintenance of the species. I had a few ideas in a rather long post that might be of interest to folks visiting this site. Because of the length of my post I decided to place it here; folks turned off by long posts can simply ignore it.

To discredit the value of white oak trees because the acorns may not be available during hunting season is, in my opinion, a very narrow view regarding their utility for a healthy deer herd. First, white oak acorns are much better nutritional food than corn or soybeans for fall and winter deer food. In comparison to corn they have 2X the amount of carbohydrates and 10X the amount of fat; high energy foods that build up the animals’ reserves before the onset of the rut .. a time when bucks can lose up to 30% of their body weight. According to Wayne Askew - professor emeritus of the Division of Nutrition at University of Utah College of Health - "Acorns contain large amounts of protein, carbohydrates, and fats, as well as the minerals calcium, phosphorus, and potassium, and niacin.” Protein is essential for muscle development and overall growth and size. As mentioned above, carbs and fat are high-energy foods while calcium, phosphorus, and potassium are essential for antler development.
White oak acorns may be the most complete deer food that cost relatively little to develop and almost nothing to maintain once the trees come into acorn production (with the exception of releasing them from fast growing non-mast trees or other vegetation that compete for resources).
t b cont.

 

[OakSeeds]

Second, the path to white oak acorn production probably is a two-step process for most habitat developers assuming they have existing white oak trees on the property in question. The first step is to inventory existing white oak trees on a property to evaluate their history and environment. By history, I mean how often have they fruited in a 5-year cycle? Once, twice, three or more times; white oak trees have a “personality,” in terms of individual propensities with regard to fruiting. The key is to identify the “super-fruiters,” those WO trees that produce mast on a frequent basis (three or more years out of 5) and spit out large numbers of acorns. Research has shown that during high-mast years, over 75% of the acorns produced come from 20% or fewer of the WO trees in the area; the “super-fruiter” trees. Much has been written about “releasing” (TSI) mature WO trees (especially “super-fruiters” and other WOs approaching their high levels of mast production) in order to increase the total mast available on the property. If, after a 6-year run a MATURE WO tree has not produced an acorn, you might consider it, and any other similar trees, to be good candidates for logging, firewood, or mushroom-growing sticks. One could then replace that/those tree(s) with a WO tree from parents with known characteristics.
tbc ....

 

[OakSeeds]

The second step is to select replacement WO trees (assuming you have removed some non-productive trees or, you currently have no WO trees on the property, Remember the 5 characteristics of great WO habitat trees: they 1. fruit often, 2. grow rapidly, 3. produce large numbers of 4. big acorns and 5. drop later (ideally well into Oct and early November). Genetics can play a role in most of these characteristics; however numbers 2 and 4 deserve special attention and can be linked further. Promoting rapid growth of a WO might be enhanced by selecting hybrid white oaks that might be prone to exhibit “hybrid vigor.”
Growth rates of trees under 10 years of age might be stimulated by ensuring hydration (especially first 2 years), fertilization, protection from critters (including deer, mice, rabbits, voles, etc) and, elimination of competition (grass, weeds, TSI to eliminate competing canopies, etc). Acorn size might be enhanced by selecting hybrid WO trees with a known parent that produces large acorns. Since some bur oak trees shuck out large acorns, any hybrid cross involving a BO with a history of large acorns is worthy of consideration for planting. Examples might include Schuettes WO, Bebbs WO, Dream Oak, Bur Gambel WO, and hybrids involving bur oak with overcup WO, swamp chestnut WO, English WO and Live WO. In the end, you can grow them for your children (if you are more senior) or harvest them for their lumber content. It may be possible to impact the frequency of fruiting by selecting WOs with a reputation for consistent year-over-year fruiting. Several on this site have noted the propensity of English WO trees to fruit frequently; therefor, a hybrid WO with an English O parent (e.g/, bimundor = Q alba X Q robur) might be a candidate to enhance the frequency of fruiting criteria.

Merry Christmas

Quercus macrocarpa Michx

https://www.msudeer.msstate.edu/nutrition-and-genetics.php

https://extension.msstate.edu/publications/publications/managing-hardwood-stands-for-acorn

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I wonder what the likelihood of natural crossing would be if any of us planted some hybrid WO near any of our existing native WO trees. I've read that some oaks will cross with other oaks more readily than other varieties - but I have no idea which ones they may be. Any ideas out there??

 

[OakSeeds]

I wonder what the likelihood of natural crossing would be if any of us planted some hybrid WO near any of our existing native WO trees. I've read that some oaks will cross with other oaks more readily than other varieties - but I have no idea which ones they may be. Any ideas out there??

said simply ... it will likely happen ... spread your different varieties out (plant multiple species and don' group them by individual species), keep them around 25 yards apart, and and play the prevailing wind to get the combinations you want.

This photo shows a bur or bebbs oak about 30 feet from a line of columnar WO trees in town. I live in a community with the "tree city" designation; consequently, lots of trees (many of which are oaks) are planted on adjoining properties where different species of oaks are located very close to one another. In the midwest, you are much more likely to discover these potential cross-fertilization hybrid opportunities as street trees (specimen trees) in more urban settings than in an older woods where bur oaks are likely to be the dominate oak species. Watch for them ... they are out there!

Great question BNB

 

[OakSeeds]

Attached are pictures of a NRO that pumps out acorns reminiscent of grape clusters. It is truly a bodacious red oak tree.
It's the most prolific red oak I,ve ever encountered.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

said simply ... it will likely happen ... spread your different varieties out (plant multiple species and don' group them by individual species), keep them around 25 yards apart, and and play the prevailing wind to get the combinations you want.

This photo shows a bur or bebbs oak about 30 feet from a line of columnar WO trees in town. I live in a community with the "tree city" designation; consequently, lots of trees (many of which are oaks) are planted on adjoining properties where different species of oaks are located very close to one another. In the midwest, you are much more likely to discover these potential cross-fertilization hybrid opportunities as street trees (specimen trees) in more urban settings than in an older woods where bur oaks are likely to be the dominate oak species. Watch for them ... they are out there!

View attachment 72224 Great question BNB

We have some BIG, OLD (100 years +) WO at camp - 3 ft. + bases. I never did the acorn germination thing before. Would acorns from those trees reproduce similar WO - or are they like apple seeds that do not reproduce the same trees??? They have been mostly open-grown WO, (2 are in the open), with a couple getting pines growing in on them for competition. We have since released a couple of those big WO from pines. Would like to regen some of those genes!!!

 

[OakSeeds]

BNB, Are the oaks you refer to only one species (e.g., Q alba -straight white oak or Q macrocarpa - bur oak). If so, next fall check the size of acorns on each tree and gather some from trees producing the largest acorns. It's even better if two large-acorn-trees are relatively close to each other in a downwind pattern. If there are not other white oaks with characteristically small acorns (different species) or another same species WO throwing small acorns, you have a pretty good chance for F1 offspring with large acorns ... unless you get a genetic throwback. Good luck; go for it, you have nothing to lose.

Some folks might enjoy this article ... FYI

https://utia.tennessee.edu/publications/wp-content/uploads/sites/269/2023/10/W126.pdf

 

[Bowsnbucks]

BNB, Are the oaks you refer to only one species (e.g., Q alba -straight white oak or Q macrocarpa - bur oak). If so, next fall check the size of acorns on each tree and gather some from trees producing the largest acorns. It's even better if two large-acorn-trees are relatively close to each other in a downwind pattern. If there are not other white oaks with characteristically small acorns (different species) or another same species WO throwing small acorns, you have a pretty good chance for F1 offspring with large acorns ... unless you get a genetic throwback. Good luck; go for it, you have nothing to lose.

Some folks might enjoy this article ... FYI

https://utia.tennessee.edu/publications/wp-content/uploads/sites/269/2023/10/W126.pdf

On our property, we have no burr oaks. The BIG oaks I was referring to are all Quercus alba - straight white oaks. They don't make huge acorn crops every year, but when they do ..... buckle up. Our native oaks around our camp area are white, northern red, chestnut (Quercus montana), and a few black oaks. Rocky ridge tops are almost all chestnut oaks, they tolerate and thrive in thin, dry, rocky, sandy mountain soils. VERY TOUGH trees, with sweet acorns like Q. alba.

Good Lord willing, I'll direct-plant some of the white oak and chestnut oak acorns this coming September with squirrel & deer caging to see what sprouts. Float-test first, or use ones with root radicle already showing they're viable acorns.

Thanks for posting the link!!

 

[OakSeeds]

Folks often want to know which white oak species would be appropriate for planting in their area. If you google/search Quercus BONAP you will get a "picture" listing of various white oak species (including some hybrids) and a U. S. map showing states where each species would likely do well. Hope you find it useful.

TAXON MAPS .... North American Plant Atlas

 

[Teeder]

Very interesting!
So many listed for my area that I've never heard of.
Thanks for posting!

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Folks often want to know which white oak species would be appropriate for planting in their area. If you google/search Quercus BONAP you will get a "picture" listing of various white oak species (including some hybrids) and a U. S. map showing states where each species would likely do well. Hope you find it useful.

TAXON MAPS .... North American Plant Atlas

Thanks for posting this info, O.S. Gonna look at the maps closely.