The Wildlife Group & Persimmons up north

[roymunson]

Doing a "buying power" deal with my buddy/co-op land guy/hunting partner. He's done this longer than I have and has had good success with the Wildlife Group. I didn't find a ton about them on here, but wondered what you're opinions were of them.

Looking to put in some pear trees and (although I'm skeptical), he's not ready to give up on his persimmons. He hasn't had a lot of bearing on the persimmons as we're in zone 6ish (Northeast Ohio), but have any of you had any success in the colder zones with persimmons?

 

[Prof.Kent]

Doing a "buying power" deal with my buddy/co-op land guy/hunting partner. He's done this longer than I have and has had good success with the Wildlife Group. I didn't find a ton about them on here, but wondered what you're opinions were of them.

Looking to put in some pear trees and (although I'm skeptical), he's not ready to give up on his persimmons. He hasn't had a lot of bearing on the persimmons as we're in zone 6ish (Northeast Ohio), but have any of you had any success in the colder zones with persimmons?

There are no fruiting persimmon trees that I have ever heard of in Zone 5, mid-michigan, only SW lower michigan, if that answers your question.

 

[yoderjac]

The wildlife group has been very helpful to me. I've had a number of conversations with Alan and he has always been very helpful giving me lots of details of how they grow some trees. He was also nice enough to make some special packages of tree bundles for me. I've generally been happy with what I've gotten from them.

As for persimmons, there are American and Oriental. For wildlife you want American. You can use the search function to find a lot of my older posts on persimmons. Within American, there are two strains, northern and southern that have a different number of chromosomes. Northern persimmons generally have larger fruit and leaves than southern persimmons. They are much more cold hardy. Most of the named varieties are the northern strain. Zone 6ish is ok for persimmons, but I would make sure both the rootstock and grafting tops are from a northern strain.

I have a fried who is trying to work with persimmon up in zone 4. He is really pushing the limits. He has found a few trees growing that far north and is collecting seeds, crossing them, and trying to see how far north he can grow the seedlings. His feeling is that a persimmon tree that far north would be golden for attracting deer. I think he has his work cut out for him.

Zone 5 is about the limit for persimmons. Much of the work with persimmons and commercialization of them was done by Jim Claypool. I believe his orchard was in 6a in Il. Jerry Lehman is the current de facto authority on American persimmons. You may have to do some homework to make sure you know what you are buying and avoid orchards in the south, but you should be able to find persimmons that will work in 6ish.

Keep in mind that persimmons are a long-term investment and it will be many years before they have significant production.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Turkey Creek]

They have been known to ship trees in the spring whether you are ready for them or not, especially in terms of the more northern growing zones.

 

[TreeDaddy]

You might consider a call to your state dept of conservation

They can be very helpful with advice for tree choices in your area

bill

 

[roymunson]

We're planning on putting them in the dirt next weekend. Heck, we even have grunt labor lined up.

Just wondered how you guys have done w/ the nursery, and I know we have some persimmons growing as it is, just haven't had anything bear a lot of fruit yet. I guess at the cost we're doing it at, it's worth the gamble.

 

[Honker]

There are a few persimmon up here in the Madison, WI (5a) area that I know of that are fruiting.

 

[roymunson]

Pears are in the ground, also got some persimmons. Was really impressed with the persimmons. The root system was really strong.

Got them all protected, and I guess we'll see which does better, tubes or cages as we did a little of both.

All my trees are on southern facing gradual slopes in fields/food plots. Sun shouldn't be an issue.

Thus far in 1 of my plots i have 3 bartletts (left overs from a local guy last year, it's all he had), a mckelvey pear, a gallaway, and I'd have to double check again to see what the last one is.

I really wanna kill big bucks, but man, putting trees in the ground was almost as much fun as hunting itself.

 

[H20fwler]

I don't know anything about their persimmons but have had only good experiences with their pears, I planted all late droppers from them. Like others have said Allen was great to deal with even threw in a couple extra trees for me to try out.
Persimmons are definitely something I would like to try out here, what Jack said about northern varieties is very interesting.

 

[yoderjac]

I don't know anything about their persimmons but have had only good experiences with their pears, I planted all late droppers from them. Like others have said Allen was great to deal with even threw in a couple extra trees for me to try out.
Persimmons are definitely something I would like to try out here, what Jack said about northern varieties is very interesting.

I thought this quote was pretty descriptive of the differences:

There exist two races of American persimmon, a ninety-chromosome, “northern” race and a sixty-chromosome, “southern” race. The “northern” race is native to the upper Midwest of the U.S. and is the earlier ripening and more cold-hardy of the two races. Also, the pubescent leaves and larger fruit (which occasionally are bluish) of the “northern” race contrast with the smooth leaves and smaller fruit of the “southern” race.

Jerry Lehman is one of the national authorities on persimmons. He was asked if there is an easy way to tell the difference between 60 and 90 chromosome persimmons and this was his response:

Outside of planting seeds and doing a count of the newely emerged root tip with a microscope there may not be a sure way. However, I've looked at many persimmon trees in may parts of the US. I'm not sure there is a dividing line. I believe they are very mixed in the south midwest. My observation is there are two general types and I assume the chromosome numbers is the difference. The type which I believe is the 60 has smaller generally more glossy leaves, smaller fruit, twigs smaller diamater and the smaller fruits that require a considerable longer period before ripening. If I'm correct on the longer ripening period that is why they don't range naturally in the northern areas, the seeds don't mature before the growing season ends.

My take away is this: In the south you can grow either. In fact, I've field grafted many northern varieties (90) to my native southern rootstock (60) with success. The further north you go, the more important it is to make sure you are using 90 chromosome persimmons.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[TreeDaddy]

Pears are in the ground, also got some persimmons. Was really impressed with the persimmons. The root system was really strong.



I really wanna kill big bucks, but man, putting trees in the ground was almost as much fun as hunting itself.

........."If putting trees in the ground is almost as much fun as hunting itself"..........

...........you might be a habitat guy.......

bill

 

[roymunson]

........."If putting trees in the ground is almost as much fun as hunting itself"..........

...........you might be a habitat guy.......

bill

It totally is tho... :D

Last night I trans 9 planted small maples that my son started from helicopters he collected at Grandma's house 2 years ago. Some of them were over 8' tall last summer. One way or another, I'm gonna keep the neighbors from staring at me in my living room. May take 20 years to get there, but victory will be mine...

 

[TreeDaddy]

attaboy,Roy

Two most important rules for success with baby trees:
1) keep planting
2) no complaining

bill

 

[cavey]

attaboy,Roy

Two most important rules for success with baby trees:
1) keep planting
2) no complaining

bill

I break rule number two all the time but, I do it while doing number 1.


and ps... Im 4b and have planted persimmon and they grow for a few years then cold sets the tops back then ixnay they gone. Im trying what I hope is a northern (maybe 90 c) persimmon from a MI source this will be the 2nd winter for them.