The "value" of a no-till drill.

[WTNUT]

We have friends and colleagues on here that do everything from throw and go to massive plots on huge tracts. I have fallen on both ends of the spectrum at various stages in my life. Years ago I thought I would NEVER, let me say that again, NEVER buy a small no till drill for small to medium size foodplots. After all, it could cost 10,000 to 12,000 for a good used one. Well a few years ago I did buy a great used one and it is the best "value" going. We planted 2O acres with one this weekend. I did not have to till or plow the ground. I did not have to disc after I plowed. I did not have to drag a harrogator to keep the field smooth. I did not burn a trillion gallons of diesel fuel plowing or pulling a disc. I did not have to run to the farm several days to disc after fields had been plowed, or waiting for them to dry out. I simply sprayed the fields three weeks ago, waited for two good days, drilled the plots and sprayed .

My $6,500 small chisel plow stayed in the building. My $6,000 tiller stayed in the building. Both of my small discs (8' and a folding 14') stayed in the building, another $4,500 or so. My harrogator stayed in the building. It was a mere $800.

So I replaced $17,000 worth of equipment for $10,000 to $12,000 while using less seed, spending less time and really getting a better plot in my opinion. So my advise to the medium size plotter who is thinking about buying equipment - think twice about a no till drill.

P.S. I forgot the cultipacker (bought 3 before I found one I liked). And, that reminds me I bought two tillers before I found a good one. Oh yea, that causes me to think about the discs, bought two of those I did not like before finding my current two.

Man I should have just went with no till to start with!

 

[Bill]

I love my little 6 foot Great Plains drill. Like you say pricey but.......
I've even calibrated it to plant corn. Sure it cracks a few seeds but the deer don't seem to mind. The only hitch is getting fertilizer worked in. I'm always waiting for a good rain to broadcast fertilizer a head of.

 

[BuckSutherland]

I like no-till IF you can keep the weeds down. Spray them small and spray them often would be my advice to you. I farm 50 miles west of Minneapolis and would love to get into strip till, but my land rolls just enough that I am terrified of a heavy spring rain washing out my strips. Not to mention it is damn near impossible to kill giant ragweed and waterhemp with chemicals.

 

[yoderjac]

I've been splitting the difference. I couldn't justify the cost of even a used "big boy" drill. I ended up buying a used Kasco Versa-Drill for about $3K. I have heavy clay soil that tends to crust. The long term solution is to work on OM, but that takes years. In the meantime I'm doing something I call min-till. The little Kasco works well in many ways. I love the seed metering system and you can plant most any see or mix with it. I solved many of the initial issues by buying a hydraulic toplink and using a short length of chain. This allows me to lift the drill well above the ground for transport and with a little slack in the chain, it almost acts like a towbehind following the contour of the ground. The only pain in the but left is trash. Debris tends to get caught between the openers and mud scrapers clogging the seed tubes. I have to stop often and get out to check for clogs and remove them. I have no issues drilling thorough short live vegetation like clover.

I now basically use 3 tools for planting depending on what I'm doing. First is a tiller. I lift it with my 3 point hitch so the tines barely hit the top inch. This is enough to chew up vegetation like corn stalks and kick a little dirt around and break any crusting. With heavy vegetation like corn stalks I need to do this early enough so they have time to decompose. For most other vegetation, the field looks green, more like it was rolled or crimped than tilled. You see very little dirt when you look at one of my min-tilled fields.

In the spring, I then use the Kasco to drill large seed like beans and corn. In the fall, I don't bother with the drill. If I got a good soybean field that the deer have not browsed so hard it doesn't canopy, I don't till at all. I just surface broadcast into the standing beans when they yellow. I'm using cover crop type seed that do pretty well when surface broadcast like WR, PTT, and CC. This year, my deer numbers are bouncing back and I tried to save some money by using ag beans. They deer hit them so hard they never canopied and I have fields of weeds.

I'm starting to have some weeds that are problematic for gly like marestail. There was little food value left in my beans this year, so I started by spraying the field with 24d Amine. I waited one week and then did the min-till. I'll wait 2 more weeks and then use a broadcast spreader to broadcast the cover crop seed and immediately spray it with gly.

One of the things I like best doing with the Kasco is drilling radish into suppressed perennial clover. Even if I had a "bigboy" drill, I think I'd still be using the tiller in this fashion until I can get my OM up.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[TreeDaddy]

What size tractor is required for the 6 foot drill?

Do you use 3 pt attachment or pull behind?

bill

 

[JCU Delt Ox]

We bought a Land Pride 606NT last March with the intent of doing food plots. With our fall plots in for the year, we've planted 54 acres. I agree 100% that it makes planting a much simpler process and has really produced some great results. We pull ours with either a JD 5065 or Kioti RX6620 and we could easily handle a 7' or even 8' planter. The 6' is convenient for roading as it isn't much wider than the bucket. So far we've planted CIR Switchgrass, Oats, Rye, Clover, Alfalfa, Vetch, Buckwheat, Millet, Sorghum, Soybeans, and Corn.

 

[Bill]

What size tractor is required for the 6 foot drill?

Do you use 3 pt attachment or pull behind?

bill

Mine is a pull type. 75 hp tractor never grunts pulling it. I have had the same issue as Jack. If the old bean stubble is thick it will get all jammed up in the openers. For some reason this doesn't happen if I've over seeded rye. Some how the tall rye helps keep it cleaned out.

 

[yoderjac]

What size tractor is required for the 6 foot drill?

Do you use 3 pt attachment or pull behind?

bill

I'm using a DK45 4x4 with a FEL for my 4' Kasco versadrill. It is a 3-pt model and lighter by far than most of the bigboy drills. The issue I had was that it is so long, without the hydraulic toplink, either the cultipacker had no pressure or it hung very close to the ground when lifted. The hydraulic toplink cured that. I did put it on a Kubota one year. It was a mid sized frame and had no fel. It was in the 30 hp range. It had plenty of hydraulic power to lift the drill, but the weight was so far back, without a fel it lifted the front tires up enough that steering was problematic. I ended up having to put front weights on the Kubota to use it.

Others can give you more input of the bigboy drills.

Thanks,

jack

 

[Boll Weevil]

Totally agree with the above especially saving time and fuel. I've got an old 15ft Tye drill with double disc openers that's HEAVY...when soil moisture is right and thatch isn't overly thick it no-tills just fine. I drill wheat right into my clover every fall to consume excess nitrogen and increase food volume. It's small enough to get around all my roads that are tucked back in the timber but big enough to make short work of plots large and small.

 

[j-bird]

I fully understand the value of a no-till drill. I see a larger version every year go across my crop fields planting soybeans. However, for plotters there has to be the "need/justification" for one. My contention against a drill is that most plotters A - don't plot more than a few acres, B - can't afford to drop $10K on an implement, and C - have better things (other priorities) to spend that money on.

Most plotters I know started small and most don't plant but a few acres in plot anyway. Especially annuals where you have to replant every year or even twice a year. Most plotters I know also have other financial demands to worry about so low cost is the name of the game.

A no-till drill is a great tool to have at your disposal.....I can't justify a nice tiller of my own based on the amount of use it would see.....much less a no-till drill! Again great tools if you can afford/justify one.....not going to happen for me anytime soon.

 

[MickT]

A bunch in soil conservation offices in the mid south rent the out. Might see if that's offered in your area.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[swat1018]

I would say 40-45 horse is a minimum for a pull type. I run a 3pt model with 68 HP, and you know it's there. I have a 5400 JD, and it's powerful enough and pretty heavy. The weight is as important as the power for a 3pt.

 

[tynimiller]

I fully understand the value of a no-till drill. I see a larger version every year go across my crop fields planting soybeans. However, for plotters there has to be the "need/justification" for one. My contention against a drill is that most plotters A - don't plot more than a few acres, B - can't afford to drop $10K on an implement, and C - have better things (other priorities) to spend that money on.

Most plotters I know started small and most don't plant but a few acres in plot anyway. Especially annuals where you have to replant every year or even twice a year. Most plotters I know also have other financial demands to worry about so low cost is the name of the game.

A no-till drill is a great tool to have at your disposal.....I can't justify a nice tiller of my own based on the amount of use it would see.....much less a no-till drill! Again great tools if you can afford/justify one.....not going to happen for me anytime soon.

I'm right there with you Jbird. Shoot all together Pops and I probably put about 6-9 acres in the ground a year...but that is spread between 4 locations and none are contigiously larger than 2 acres (most are .75 or smaller). We've discussed it but realized renting one for the day or weekend is all I'd be able to justify as it is a serious drop of change...now if I decided to get into the food plot planting business and could build a clientel sure be worth it...but just us two schmo's dropping $5K even just doesn't make sense given the small amount of plots we put in a year.

I did find out the local soil and water offices may have a drill available....will look into that.

 

[Wild Thing]

We bought a Land Pride 606NT last March with the intent of doing food plots. With our fall plots in for the year, we've planted 54 acres. I agree 100% that it makes planting a much simpler process and has really produced some great results. We pull ours with either a JD 5065 or Kioti RX6620 and we could easily handle a 7' or even 8' planter. The 6' is convenient for roading as it isn't much wider than the bucket. So far we've planted CIR Switchgrass, Oats, Rye, Clover, Alfalfa, Vetch, Buckwheat, Millet, Sorghum, Soybeans, and Corn.

Very much agree with the OP. I purchased a Land Pride 606NT 2 years ago and haven't looked back. I already sold my conventional drill and my JD-7000, 4 row planter. Have not used either my 12' field cultivator or even my 6' 3 Pt cultivator, disc, cultipacker....If memory serves me correctly, all I have used since purchasing the drill is my 3 pt cyclone spreader for fertilizing and my 10' ATV sprayer (looking for a 3 pt sprayer now) and the drill. I am only planting 16 acres now, plus a few miles of travel corridors, etc, but some of it gets planted twice/year and I can also drill cereal grains right into my clover plots to give me both components in the fall, then just spray with Cleth in the spring to revert back to clover only. I used to average around 220 hours/year on my tractor but last year I logged just shy of 100 hours.

My soils are building OM, I don't have any erosion issues, I am conserving soil moisture and all of those nice to have soil organisms and micro-organisms as well. Did I mention that I haven't picked any rocks since I quit turning dirt? Not sure how much fuel I am saving for the 120 fewer hours per year but I like the idea of that as well.

Yes the 606NT was expensive but I look at it as an investment. I rinse my drill out after every use and power wash it at the end of the season. It never spends a night outside of the pole barn. It looks as good today as it did the day I bought it and I am quite confident that 10 years from now I could probably sell it for nearly as much as I paid for it.

I have planted corn, beans, sugar beets, clovers, brassicas, buckwheat, oats, wheat and rye with it. I want to plant Cave In Rock Switchgrass with it this year but I can not find that seed listed in my planting guide. JCU Delt Ox - did you drill it from the small seed box or do you have the NWSG box? Thanks.

What size tractor is required for the 6 foot drill?

Do you use 3 pt attachment or pull behind?

Land Pride (AKA Great Plains) recommends 40 HP for the pull behind 606NT. My JD-5400 is 68 HP but I have a lot of hilly ground here and did not want the weight of the 3 PT drill on my tractor. I also have an John Deere I-Match Quick Hitch on my 3 pt arms and I would have to remove that for the 3 pt drill. Did not want to do that either. I can hook up to or drop my pull behind in a minute or two - no problem.

RR Corn and Sugar Beets:



Drilling grains into clover strip:



Drilling into rye thatch:



Drilling into last years' brassicas:

 

[swat1018]

The easiest way to get settings for something you aren't sure about, or fine tune the book settings is calibrate. Ball park the CIR, then pull the seed tubes and put them in buckets, and crank out an acre then weigh the seed.

 

[Bill]

If plans work for me I'm headed to the farm next week. Somewhere I have notes on switchgrass seeding rates, I'll try to dig them up to give a starting point for calibration.

Side note on calibrating a 606. Great Plains says 999 cranks = 1 acre and they recommend using the 999. That's a lot of cranking. Not OSHA approved and I don't endorse anyone doing this but.....I jack up the drive wheel on the drill, back my 4 wheeler up to it so the tires touch. Jack up the 4 wheeler put a piece of tape on the drive wheel and use the 4 wheeler to spin the tire. Count 999 rotations, weigh the seed and adjust accordingly.

 

[Bill]

Oh I forgot. Switch goes in the small seed box because it's not fluffy.

 

[Wild Thing]

Thanks swat and Bill. Nice to know I will be able to use my 606NT drill. I know you can turn the drive wheel 999 times to measure out a full acre of seed ...but I just use the calibration crank arm and turn it 100 times to get 1/10th of an acre. Then do the math to convert for 1 acre. It comes out close enough. Thx again.

 

[swat1018]

If plans work for me I'm headed to the farm next week. Somewhere I have notes on switchgrass seeding rates, I'll try to dig them up to give a starting point for calibration.

Side note on calibrating a 606. Great Plains says 999 cranks = 1 acre and they recommend using the 999. That's a lot of cranking. Not OSHA approved and I don't endorse anyone doing this but.....I jack up the drive wheel on the drill, back my 4 wheeler up to it so the tires touch. Jack up the 4 wheeler put a piece of tape on the drive wheel and use the 4 wheeler to spin the tire. Count 999 rotations, weigh the seed and adjust accordingly.

Have you compared counting the tire revolutions vs. what the acre meter says? I was going to do something similar, and just go by the acre meter.

 

[Bill]

Have you compared counting the tire revolutions vs. what the acre meter says? I was going to do something similar, and just go by the acre meter.

I did once and they didn't match. The meter read more than an acre after 999 revolutions. My assumption was when the drill is bouncing behind a tractor more seed spills down the tubes so there is a formula built in that adjusts for that. I could be wrong about that. Sheer speculation on my part.