The most famous thistle patch in MN

[SD51555]

In my experience, thistle and burdock both thrive in compacted, old pasture settings. Have you ever dealt with burdock? Your take on thistles makes good sense to me, and I'm not concerned with them. Burdock is an entirely different matter. Is there a no-till approach you would recommend? The amount of seed in the seed bank makes it feel hopeless.

I’ve got burdock in my yard plot. It’s a low calcium plant. I’ve got the benefit of this being a 1/10th acre plot. I spread 200 lbs (or 1-ton rate) gypsum on this plot in September specifically to try to change the geology to not favor burdock anymore. I have hit that plot with high dose calcium (lime and gypsum) at least twice before. It’s responded well, but the burdock is still around. It’s not advancing, but it’s also not gone yet.

I think this was throw and roll day.

This was a few weeks later.

Maybe a month later. By this point, the gypsum hadn’t received any rain to start it working.

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[SD51555]

I’m anxious to see this patch green up this year.

Those old Canada thistle bones are thatch now.

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[SD51555]

It’s up.

I may only have dandelions and BFTF so far.

Little bit of rain sure sets the horsetail to going. Even a few straggler thistles still coming. I did spread some spring trit out there yesterday.

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[SD51555]

This grass patch was solid Canada thistle 3 years ago. They’re completely gone now. I never did anything serious to them. Just mowed in August.

This year I’m gonna have to do something with the rest of the plot. I’ve got serious grass taking hold. This plot has been going unbroken since the fall of 2021. I’m leaning towards sethoxydim to treat this, and then follow right away with collards, safflower, and flax.

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[SD51555]

I've had some serious outbreaks of horsetail over the years in this plot. I learned, by pure accident, that lime can knock out horsetail. To what pH level? I don't know. Where I get oppressive patches of horsetail, I've thrown on high rates of calcium via either gypsum or lime depending on where the pH is at. I almost forgot about the horsetail because I haven't seen it in five years.

 

[marlin]

I've had some serious outbreaks of horsetail over the years in this plot. I learned, by pure accident, that lime can knock out horsetail. To what pH level? I don't know. Where I get oppressive patches of horsetail, I've thrown on high rates of calcium via either gypsum or lime depending on where the pH is at. I almost forgot about the horsetail because I haven't seen it in five years.

Do you know what the pH level of the field is today without the horsetail?

 

[SD51555]

Do you know what the pH level of the field is today without the horsetail?

Yeah, that's the north plot sample I just got back.

 

[marlin]

Yeah, that's the north plot sample I just got back.

View attachment 77650

Thanks.

 

[matinc]

SD I see your north field is 2.7 OM. How does that compare to your previous sample and how much duff are you adding every year. Your 2 other fields have substantially improved OM.

 

[SD51555]

SD I see your north field is 2.7 OM. How does that compare to your previous sample and how much duff are you adding every year. Your 2 other fields have substantially improved OM.

The north plot first tested at 3.4%.

It tested two years later at 4.9%.

I tested it a third time in ‘19 and it came back 4.0.


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[SD51555]

This was the subsoil sample I did in 2019. I wanted to know what I was spreading on top of my plot. It's come quite a ways since it was spread. Unfortunately, it's not had a single year of adequate rain in 5 years. I'm very forgiving on this kind of dirt. I'm willing to take nearly any growth the first few years because magazine forages do not do well in heavy dead clay. It's been a lot of calcium (lime) and gypsum to try to aerate this clay. It started at 0.6% OM and made it to 2.7% in all those years. If I could get a summer of rain, I bet it'd shoot ahead a full point or more in one year.

 

[SD51555]

Well, it looks like this is gonna take an extra year to fiberize the soil.

There are some goodies poking thru, but I may have forgotten the lime. There is a lot of horsetail and fern in there.

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[Telemark]

I sprayed the thistles in my plots In Norway last year. This year the thistles are back stronger than ever. I'm just going to leave them. I think I will cut everything down in early August to prepare for the September 1st opener, but otherwise I don't think there is much I can do to fix the mess anymore. They are relatively soggy acidic plots that don't even respond to lime. I think all the rain we get just washes the lime away.

 

[bigboreblr]

Whats that parrot's feather looking plant in your plot, kinda like pine branches.

Far as keeping track of your soil, whats your collection strategy for no-till? You do the normal top 1 inch of the soil? Or the typical 4 inch layer like normal modern till AG?

Telemark, what kind of soil is that, is it like sand, or peat based? Soils with low CEC, its continuous maintenance. Just got to add a little each year, or even twice a year. Like 1/4 ton / acre. I am playing with the barn lime at camp. Not only its the cheapest bag lime I can find, it's also not ground well. Thinking the coarser pieces take months or years to dissolve.

 

[SD51555]

Whats that parrot's feather looking plant in your plot, kinda like pine branches.

Far as keeping track of your soil, whats your collection strategy for no-till? You do the normal top 1 inch of the soil? Or the typical 4 inch layer like normal modern till AG?

Telemark, what kind of soil is that, is it like sand, or peat based? Soils with low CEC, its continuous maintenance. Just got to add a little each year, or even twice a year. Like 1/4 ton / acre. I am playing with the barn lime at camp. Not only its the cheapest bag lime I can find, it's also not ground well. Thinking the coarser pieces take months or years to dissolve.

That’s horsetail. It likes low oxygen, low pH, high K, wet soil. I don’t have wet, but I’ve got the other three in that spot. I’m gonna put some calcitic lime on it today.

I don’t have any no-till methods. I throw stuff on the ground, preferably under residue, and that’s it. I’ve had a lot of fails because of it, but u have back up plans for that.


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[SD51555]

You can knock out horsetail with lime alone. I learned that spreading high rates under mature oaks. Here’s a spot where it just vanished under high rates lime. You can see right where the lime stopped.

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[Brian662]

You can knock out horsetail with lime alone. I learned that spreading high rates under mature oaks. Here’s a spot where it just vanished under high rates lime. You can see right where the lime stopped.

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Yeah, but nothing replaced the horsetail it doesn't appear?

 

[homerj]

Horsetail is great at mining nutrients most other plants can't reach

 

[SD51555]

Yeah, but nothing replaced the horsetail it doesn't appear?

It filled in with new plants later.


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